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jazzygeofferz

That Star Trek thread somebody was talking about

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On 23/10/2017 at 9:13 PM, jazzygeofferz said:

Somebody mentioned in the "What are you watching on TV?" thread about their thinking of starting a Star Trek Thread,

That was me Austin! That was me all along! 

Discovery is fucking fantastic. If Only Connect was on hiatus it'd be my favourite thing on telly at the moment. I've discussed with @SpursRiot2012already in "tv you gave up on" about having initial doubts but after the duff double pilot it's rocketed away. And yes it's full-on Trek ideals at it's heart, but having a war core gives it an interesting dimension. Rather than continual peacekeeping there's tension present. 

And who the fuck cares if the tech is too advanced or the Klingons have the wrong makeup on? What a miserable existence to be bothered by such things. 

I'm due a rewatch of DS9. I've been trying to wade through Enterprise to get to the end, but christ it's pedestrian. Over-reliance on over-bearing Trip, and the sexualisation of T'pol is irritating and childish. In fact the whole supporting cast is shit. 

 

Edited by Onyx2

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I'm with you on the sexualising T'Pol bit.

If Gene Roddenberry was alive today and creating Star Trek nowadays it'd probably look like this. Microsoft have tried teasing that they've been working on what can almost be described as "Holodeck" technology nowadays with some of their AR interface ideas, and if they're working on things like that now then there's no reason something like that shooting gallery thing from this week's episode wouldn't exist by the mid 23rd century. Likewise with the hologram communication things. In the 60s we didn't think people would be able to use handheld communication devices over long differences, and look at us now with our mobile phones and touch screen interfaces.

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On 25/10/2017 at 12:28 AM, Onyx2 said:

I've discussed with @SpursRiot2012already in "tv you gave up on" about having initial doubts but after the duff double pilot it's rocketed away. And yes it's full-on Trek ideals at it's heart, but having a war core gives it an interesting dimension. Rather than continual peacekeeping there's tension present. 

And who the fuck cares if the tech is too advanced or the Klingons have the wrong makeup on? What a miserable existence to be bothered by such things. 

 

Not at all.  When they've cultivated a fan base to the point that the lore is so established that they sell official canon encyclopedias and timelines the amount of retconning in Discovery grates.

Klingon appearance and visual style aren't that much of an issue for me.

Tech more advanced than Voyager?  At what point do mushroom drives get banned and they say that they must never mention them again?

Worst of all is attaching the protagonist to existing characters.  Were they ever discussed in TOS, TNG, the movies etc?  I'd have thought that they may have come up at some point what with it being a unique situation.

Having said all that I'm decidedly on the enjoying Discovery train despite the fairly large issues it has.

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2 minutes ago, johnnyboy said:

When they've cultivated a fan base to the point that the lore is so established that they sell official canon encyclopedias and timelines the amount of retconning in Discovery grates.

Who will buy it regardless. And someone will wave a hand and say "oh, it's the Lorca-verse" and it'll all be fine. I'm a Star Wars guy and I just watched 30 years of history evaporate when Disney swept in. It just doesn't matter.

It's fairly clear these mushroom drives are going to be trouble. You know they have a solution in the bag to retcon it away.

6 minutes ago, johnnyboy said:

Worst of all is attaching the protagonist to existing characters.  Were they ever discussed in TOS, TNG, the movies etc?  I'd have thought that they may have come up at some point what with it being a unique situation.

See: Lorca-verse. Even if they don't, I just can't see that how it prevents you enjoying an episode. Sarek is still being Sareky.

Either way, I'm more surprised they didn't set it about 20 years after TNG and reap the lovely cameos they could've had. They could use all the same storylines and could even use a belligerent Klingon house as the bad guy.

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15 minutes ago, Onyx2 said:

Either way, I'm more surprised they didn't set it about 20 years after TNG and reap the lovely cameos they could've had. They could use all the same storylines and could even use a belligerent Klingon house as the bad guy.

It does matter to some people.  Star Wars books don't count ;-)

I'm in total agreement about setting it beyond the scope of the TNG-era.  It would have eliminated almost all of the niggles.

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2 minutes ago, johnnyboy said:

It does matter to some people.  Star Wars books don't count ;-)

I'm in total agreement about setting it beyond the scope of the TNG-era.  It would have eliminated almost all of the niggles.

Who doesn't want to see Admiral Picard or Riker III (PS I've forgotten everything about Nemesis if they have in fact dealt with all that)?

Seems like a missed opportunity, not exactly going to wheel out Shatner as a rookie are they? "Who's that fat old Starfleet kid? Did you hear about his Kobayashi Maru?"

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4 minutes ago, Onyx2 said:

Who doesn't want to see Admiral Picard...

BRB.  Wanking.

When they cross over with Kirk it'll be Chris Pine, but in the prime timeline.  Calling it now.

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I've been avoiding Discovery so I can binge-watch it, but if that article is correct about the Klingons - that they've not just changed the look, but everything about them, including culture - then that's really fucking stupid. Sorry, Onyx, but that is a big deal. There are whole storylines in all the other series based on the warrior culture of the Klingons, and how it affected both individuals and the galactic powers of the time. It was a significant element of the motivations and developments of some of the major characters and how they interacted with others. Some of the best Klingon episodes were about the legal wrangling and the political landscape of the Klingon Empire. Changing the look is bad enough when it was already done once and had a story arc to explain what happened, but changing the entire bloody civilisation? They might as well have just made a whole new species. 

It's not like the Klingons are some peripheral species that a bit of tinkering wouldn't go unnoticed. They're one of the Federation's main and most frequent antagonists, and, later, allies. I could understand if they fiddled around with the Breen, the Tholians, or maybe the First Federation, but this is just mystifying. 

Edited by Carbomb

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Bit cake and eat it that article.  The producers took the decision to set the show when they did.  It's up to them to make it fit rather than expect everyone to have beyond selective amnesia.

Discovery is a shiny new thing and nothing else established in the franchise matters as long as it's a good show?  Or, why not both?  Make it a good show and make it fit as it is where it is.

Edited by johnnyboy

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I love all things Star Trek except Enterprise's god awful theme tune, Janeway holodeck episodes in 'Irish Pubs' and Bashir pre discovering he was actually GMed to be an obnoxious tossload, after that reveal his character made sense.

Discovery is doing well, and I hope it ties things together. The Klingon looks need to be explained and linking it to TOS Klingons would be the best way.

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