How do you view AJ Styles in WWE....so far?

[SpursRiot2012]

1 hour ago, Arch Stanton said:

The inevitable has happened- he's become just another guy on the roster, trading wins and losses in TV filler matches every week. Just like everyone else. He's still the best in-ring performer, but that alone doesn't make you special in WWE. SmackDown feels like one big mid-card show and he's the mid-card champion.

Just a perfect description of what drives me away from the product year after year, before coming back for the SummerSlam - Mania period. How do they do this? They're masters at getting you to not care about guys who, with the right booking, should be superstars - actual superstars, not WWE Superstars.

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

Quote

How do they do this? They're masters at getting you to not care about guys who, with the right booking, should be superstars - actual superstars, not WWE Superstars.

In my opinion it's because WWE like to rush some guys straight to the top, and then once they've won the top title / been in a top fued, it's inevitable that they have to drop down the card. It happened with AJ and Kevin Owens, and now it's happening with Shinsuke Nakamura.

AJ is a perfect example. After coming in and having his opening fued with Jericho, he was immediately pushed as a top threat to Roman Reigns, then in a fued with Cena as well as a WWE title wine.

Great! But now what? The only way to go is down.

Ironically this approach has killed off the lower and midcard, and in turn making the upper card feel less special. Personally I feel it would be better and more satisfying to see some more of the journey. I'd like to see AJ come in and wrestle some fueds with guys lower down the card, building up to being worthy for a midcard championship, and then after a solid IC / US reign, go on to try and crack the main event scene, which eventually leads to a struggle to win the top championship, but then win it in satisfying fashion.

As a means to give you a direct comparison, compare the way NXT built Bayley up vs. how she was built up in WWE. NXT Bayley came in as a naive child. She had to grow and mature. She had to scratch and claw for every opportunity. Her first shot at the title ended unsuccessfully, and then she finally won it in a grueling match vs. Sasha Banks. Meanwhile WWE Bayley was rushed to the title and is now on a downward spiral.

I appreciate times have changed and AJ Styles is a utterly unique wrestler who deserve his position, but personally I would like to see wrestlers take longer to reach to the top of the summit. The journey is far more interesting to me than the ultimate destination. 

[Love-Wilcox]

4 hours ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said:

Great! But now what? 

 

 

Um... keep pushing him on-top as a top guy ? It worked for Cena and Triple H for years. The issue IMO isn't that they rush guys to the top, it's that once they get to the top they have no long term plans to keep them there. Pick a guy, push him and protect him.

[d-d-d-dAz]

It's easier said than done though, as they are shockingly low on proper stars, so it's a self-perpetuating cycle.

In the past, you decided to push, say, Kurt Angle and then he'd work a program against Rock, then Austin, then Triple H, then maybe Undertaker, then Lesnar, then Benoit, then HBK and then he can start the whole cycle again.

Now, all the real stars are either gone or part-time. So once you've had your program with Cena and Reigns, you then have to engage with the Zigglers and Ambrose's of the world, else you have nothing to do. And it's a fucking quagmire, there. You need to work them, but by associating with them your own star is diminished in just enough time for the next big thing to be diminished just by working you.

They've created a 'mediocre trap', and it's really fucking hard to see a way out.

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

50 minutes ago, Love-Wilcox said:

Pick a guy, push him and protect him.

And they have. But sadly it isn't AJ Styles.

Sadly not everyone can be kept at the top for the long term, and out of the two evils I'd rather have AJ Styles move up the card steadily building a legacy for himself with WWE, rather than go straight to the top then drop down.

Quote

 

It's easier said than done though, as they are shockingly low on proper stars, so it's a self-perpetuating cycle.

In the past, you decided to push, say, Kurt Angle and then he'd work a program against Rock, then Austin, then Triple H, then maybe Undertaker, then Lesnar, then Benoit, then HBK and then he can start the whole cycle again.

Now, all the real stars are either gone or part-time. So once you've had your program with Cena and Reigns, you then have to engage with the Zigglers and Ambrose's of the world, else you have nothing to do. And it's a fucking quagmire, there. You need to work them, but by associating with them your own star is diminished in just enough time for the next big thing to be diminished just by working you.

They've created a 'mediocre trap', and it's really fucking hard to see a way out.

 

Totally this Daz. And I am in total agreement... it is easier said than done (sadly) and it definitely is a self perpetuating cycle. You push one hot star to Cena (e.g. Rusev), and then the next option is to feed him another (Owens) then another (Styles). Meanwhile you don't have anything cooking in the long term. 

The only positive is with Cena potentially going 'part time' (in whatever guise that might be) is that instead it'll be Reigns and Lesnar in that spot. A bit depressing really.

[King Pitcos]

If AJ Styles came in and stayed in the midcard for a year, the Internet would still be flooded from all the bitter tears. And the year in the midcard would've just been him doing what he's doing now, so he'd have lost his shine before ever hitting the main event. At least this way he's built up a solid, high-end back catalogue and can easily be reheated in time for big WrestleMania matches and such.

[DavidB6937]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with him where he is now. He's continuing to deliver solid matches, the crowds are behind him, he's involved in a high profile feud and it now involves a McMahon too. He's certainly not been forgotten about. Can't have all the guys in the main event after all.

[Guest]

Yeah I can't say he's become "just another guy". He's a made man and one of the most over people on Smackdown. Would say the only issue stems from boring Jinder stuff devaluing the main belt, but hopefully that gets resolved soon. AJ v Shinsuke for the WWE title at Mania is a very real possibility after their interaction at MitB showed there was something very much there.

[Drfunke]

There are NO stars in the company full time just now...

Thats the problem... for years many of us wondered when the era of the part timers would end, thats kinda finishing up as the stars that were coming back year on year now arent. Hence why we are guaranteed an Angle match at Mania next year

 

They badly need to make people stars, everyones even, the personalities show more on twitter than they do on TV which is an indicator that they are dialing guys back, instead of, like Austin always says, turning the volume up!

[Guest]

in fairness AJ spends his twitter time liking posts about migrating refugees being "muslim invaders". I'd reign that in too

[Billy Gunn's Stylist]

On 13/08/2017 at 9:59 AM, Love-Wilcox said:

 

Um... keep pushing him on-top as a top guy ? It worked for Cena and Triple H for years. The issue IMO isn't that they rush guys to the top, it's that once they get to the top they have no long term plans to keep them there. Pick a guy, push him and protect him.

THIS.  It's a concept that has worked for years.  Even Roman Reigns hasn't been as pushed and protected as previous Vince favourites.  AJ has proved consistently that he can have extremely high quality matches at the WWE main event level, and his previous body of work speaks for him too.  Doesn't mean he has to have a Sammartino-level title run, but more than 3-6 months surely?  

[BomberPat]

When Reigns is pushed to the top and wins more often than not, he's booed and the internet kicks off about "KEEP ROMAN STRONG". When Cena's protected and kept on top, he gets "LOL, SUPERCENA" and "Cena sucks".

Now, both of those guys make the company a lot of money, so maybe the fan "reaction" doesn't count, but it's not as simple as saying "push them and protect them" - the notion of what constitutes pushing someone and protecting them has changed.

The most protected wrestler on the roster is Brock Lesnar, and a large part of that is that people think he's legitimate. If he didn't have his UFC career behind him, he'd be in the same boat.

[Carbomb]

Just now, BomberPat said:

When Reigns is pushed to the top and wins more often than not, he's booed and the internet kicks off about "KEEP ROMAN STRONG". When Cena's protected and kept on top, he gets "LOL, SUPERCENA" and "Cena sucks".

Now, both of those guys make the company a lot of money, so maybe the fan "reaction" doesn't count, but it's not as simple as saying "push them and protect them" - the notion of what constitutes pushing someone and protecting them has changed.

The most protected wrestler on the roster is Brock Lesnar, and a large part of that is that people think he's legitimate. If he didn't have his UFC career behind him, he'd be in the same boat.

I can't speak about the fans reactions now, but I remember initially it was simply about the fact that Cena was protected as a face despite getting boos for having such a crap character; people just wanted him turned heel if he was going to be so lame. That said, he's since proven himself more than a hundred times over, but the internet lot seem to hold a grudge for that initial "slight", which is ridiculous. I couldn't say why Reigns is getting the reactions he is, though.

[BomberPat]

There's more than that with Cena - I've still, this year, heard people at wrestling training say "John Cena isn't a good wrestler, but..." before they start trying to talk about how good he is at crowd interaction, and every single time I want to say, "are you watching the same John Cena? And are you learning anything in training?". There's still a huge "Cena sucks" contingent, because some people just want to be contrary. The same goes for Roman Reigns - I get the initial resentment when he was cutting goofy babyface promos and they hadn't really found his niche yet, but he's cemented himself as a top guy with a string of top matches under his belt, and he'll still get booed because he said "suffering succotash" once two years ago, or because he had the audacity of not being Daniel Bryan.

I genuinely think that it'll be years before the fans accept a WWE anointed golden boy as the new top babyface, because they've conditioned themselves to reject whatever WWE gives them, and WWE have, to a large extent, played up on that.

There's ways around it, and ways to book to please everybody and ways to avoid that reaction altogether, but I suppose the question is whether or not WWE need to when they're getting the contrarians' money anyway.

[Billy Gunn's Stylist]

2 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

I can't speak about the fans reactions now, but I remember initially it was simply about the fact that Cena was protected as a face despite getting boos for having such a crap character; people just wanted him turned heel if he was going to be so lame. That said, he's since proven himself more than a hundred times over, but the internet lot seem to hold a grudge for that initial "slight", which is ridiculous. I couldn't say why Reigns is getting the reactions he is, though.

I'll be honest, I don't get a lot of the hate for Roman Reigns.  Granted, he was pushed too early after the Shield split when he needed to work on a few intangibles (character, mic work, charisma), but lately, I think he has improved greatly.  His matches are better overall and I enjoy some of his more laid-back cockiness.  I'm not an authority on what the fans want, to be fair (more of a 'see the good and bad in everything type', one of those arseholes), but I know what I like.  I'd like Roman to turn heel personally, if only for the fact that it would let him embrace some of the hate he gets and use it to his advantage.