The Relationship Thread

[DavidB6937]

Sorry to hear that. I know I'd definitely struggle to work through something like that. Got to be a joint decision and understand why it happened and all of that. But I've seen people come back from far worse so I hope if you decide to work on it you get back to a good place.

[Matthew]

So as an update on my post 2 posts ago on this, she has gone cold turkey on me since Sunday morning. She has asked for space, and has since then, not spoken to me whatsoever. 

It’s really upsetting that somebody I shared so much with, and was ready to share so much more with in the future, can behave in this way, for somebody she as recently as Sunday morning, said she still loved, yet hasn’t messaged at all just to check in.

I am absolutely devastated, have been crying on and off since then, and struggling with eating, or any motivation to do just about anything.

[TobyK]

I bet it feels like a nightmare at the moment. She’s put you in a helpless situation if she’s gone totally silent. This could all be a long-term blessing in disguise if it begins to reveal parts about her that you didn’t really see before.
 

Try your best to keep yourself sidetracked with all the things you usually enjoy (music, wrestling, shows, etc…) to try & lift some spirits until she begins to show her face again. And if she doesn’t, you have the licence to get away from the whole thing and start over again, which can be a liberating feeling. 

[air_raid]

On 10/15/2023 at 6:33 PM, Matthew said:

We have had a couple of rough weeks, and she’s distanced herself a little.

She went out on Friday, and got drunk for the first time in ages, and ended up kissing another guy.

She told me first thing Saturday morning.

Maybe it's just me, and every relationship is different, but once I know someone has that in their locker, I wouldn't be able to not worry about it constantly. Been there, done that.

On 10/15/2023 at 6:33 PM, Matthew said:

I have had trust issues in the past,

This makes me feel like this hiccup is going to live in your head forever. Maybe it's tough to hear, but you might be better off walking away. But this isn't even the main reason....

On 10/15/2023 at 6:33 PM, Matthew said:

As part of this, I felt it important to discuss long term plans. I want children, she doesn’t, and doesn’t know if that’ll ever change.

.... this is the biggest impasse a relationship can probably face, in my opinion. One party ultimately has to compromise, and you're against the clock. From your point of view, the longer you drag it out just hoping that she changes her stance, (a ) the longer and deeper the relationship becomes and the harder it is to cut the cord when it gets to the breaking point and (b) the older you'll be and harder you'll find it to successfully move on, trust someone else and find someone to have those kids with. Depending on how old you are, this is a big conversation you need to have with yourself.

Case in point ; I became really good friends with an amazing couple when they were in their mid-30s. They were both utterly fantastic people, and really good mates of mine. They'd been together several years when I met them and in many ways they were perfect for each other - they'd bought a house, shared interests, had the same sense of humour, neither ever had a bad word to say about the other apart from in a jokey manner, were inseparable much of the time, had shared friends but were equally at ease going out with just-his or just-her friends, worked for the same company but most of the time not in the same location so could share troubles and bounce ideas off each other without stepping on each others toes day to day, were clearly besotted with each other, and I genuinely don't think I ever met a couple that were more meant to be "a couple." Only problem, he wanted kids and she didnt ; she was an aunt, and that was enough. They avoided the topic for years, once confronted it and had a serious conversation and when they realized neither would budge, broke up for a few weeks, amicably. At the end of those few weeks they realized they "couldn't live without each other" and got back together, again, sweeping the fundamental difference in their life goals under the carpet. After a few years more, eventually, it was back on the table where one was going to have to make the compromise permanently and accept the other's position, or they needed to part. And so, part they did. Nobody that knew the pair of them could believe that they had split up because they WERE the perfect couple. But one wanted kids and the other didn't. Ultimately, he's ended up single again in his mid-40s, desperately looking for something that comes even close to replicating what he'd found in his (in all other aspects) perfect life partner, because he couldn't face the idea of not being a dad, and facing the prospect of being an older dad and looking after a minor until his mid 60s.

Call me crazy, and I'm nearing 5 years into my second serious relationship, but when you get serious enough to discuss whether or not you want kids, I feel like you need to be on the same page or call it a day. I feel it's unfair either waiting around to see if the other person changes their mind (knowing you may have to break their heart if they don't) or stringing someone along that you may come around to their way of thinking. Someone gets hurt in the long run, better swallow the medicine early and look for someone that feels the same way you do.

But that's just me, and YMMV.

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by air_raid

[Matthew]

Thanks for all your replies.

Seeing her do this, seeing how she acted up last week has really shown me a lot.

The sad thing is, with her mental health the way it is, she is acting out of character. The last time I was with her a couple of weeks back, she cried to me, saying she wanted me to call the doctor for her, and go with her, in order to talk about her mental health struggles. She was to let me know if she wanted me to do this by the end of the week.

By the end of that week, she had kissed another man.

I was willing to risk not having kids, as I’d decided her love was enough for me. 

[FLips]

As an outsider it's easy for me to bullet point certain things without knowing how you feel, but you do have to look at the main ones. She has cheated on you, and she doesn't want kids. The former will never change, it has happened and can't be taken back. The latter might change, but do you want kids with a woman who has cheated on you?

Personally I'd leave. People are too quick to use "mental health" as an excuse for shit behaviour but I couldn't be with someone who whenever they had an episode did bad things. I'd be on eggshells constantly.

[Chest Rockwell]

Sounds like she was looking for a way out that didn't make her feel worse and didn't hurt you. Unfortunately that's not possible and doesn't exist so she decided to prioritise the former. 

[The Gaffer]

Cheating is unfortunately so common that I do tend to believe people deserve a second chance, but that second chance doesn't need to come from you @Matthew. We all have friends and probably relatives who've done it. To that end I don't think it's like an absolute death-knell of your character, but as much as people who have done these things have a right to grow from it and become better people, we all also individually retain the right to hold out for someone who is not going to do those things to you. Both can exist side by side. 

She's given you a dose there that can hurt worse than just about anything emotionally in the short term but if this is it for you guys, you might not ever get a chance to have another go at life. I don't know, maybe that much won't change for you, but that's how I see it. It can be a massive, massive accelerant for you to do what you want to do and chase what you feel like you deserve. And whilst cheating and then effectively being black-balled immediately afterwards is a sickener, months and years from now it'll harden to resolve once you slowly heal from it over time (and you will, over time). You'll probably always have questions over it, but not nearly as many potentially devastating questions as you might have had if something this shit didn't happen and you were the one to leave on a whim. It's a hell of a full stop, is what I'm saying. 

I hope it all works out if that's what you want, but if it doesn't then don't call time on your grief. That's the main thing I learned after something similar six months ago.

Trust me, you have to befriend that motherfucker and talk with it every day. It'll cause an entry wound but it won't cause you an exit wound. It'll just stay in you and the good in life you can turn it into is all on you and completely within your control. 

 

[air_raid]

22 hours ago, Gay as FOOK said:

Cheating is unfortunately so common that I do tend to believe people deserve a second chance,

This is an interesting one. In my experience a leopard never changes its spots, I've had many friends (unfortunately) cheat on their partners, and they always end up as repeat offenders.

My best mate of 30 years cheated on all his girlfriends until it reached a peak where he was simultaneously having TWO semi-serious relationships and a fling - going back and forth between dating and spending quality time with the mother of his daughter (a tumultuous relationship that included two failed attempts to live with each other and an extremely hasty house purchase) and a colleague from his work where there was less fighting and as much chemistry, but hardly anything in common outside of work. Neither knowing he was seeing the other, after 12 months of bouncing back and forth between only seeing one but occasionally sleeping with the other. Then, not stressed enough, he started a casual "just fun & sex" arrangement with ANOTHER colleague from work who he car-shared with (who knew about the others), younger and clearly more appealing physically to him than either of his girlfriends. After sorting himself out and realizing that there was no future with girl #3 and he'd tried and failed too many times with girl #1 and they'd damage the kid by being together but unhappy - he made a serious go of it with girl #2. I was very relieved at not being his excuse any more that he was having a beer with me when really he was seeing a different girl to the one he was lying to. Several years later and all the good stuff like holidays together, him becoming a mentor to her son and planning his proposal and all sorts, a few of us men were out for a pint and he raised a glass to words to the effect of "staying good for two years" - meaning faithfulness to his other half. When I pointed out "You've been together officially longer than that, surely??" he realized he'd not told me that he'd gone on a uni reunion weekender and slept with a girl from his course that he'd always fancied but never got anywhere with. I was disappointed that the apparent growth he'd gone through over all his EastEnders like romantic chaos was a facade, but not entirely shocked.

Conversely, I was once in a relationship that was doomed to fail. I'd started dating her the first time when I was desperate to be with anyone having experienced a big rejection from a girl I really liked, and ended it when I realized there was no future there. 12 months later nearly to the day, having got nowhere with a different girl that I really liked, I started seeing my ex again out of loneliness.... despite the fact she'd been going out with a mate of mine for a few weeks, at which point she told me she didn't really want him, she still wanted me. About six weeks later I found myself dancing with the girl I was pursuing at the point I took me ex back, and realized how badly I wanted something to happen.... something snapped inside me and two days later I broke it off again with my ex/mrs because I realized if I was still looking elsewhere then it was pointless going on. So, I wanted to cheat, but didn't. Even though my existing girlfriend wasn't attractive to me, had some serious personality flaws, and the only thing going for us was that she wanted to be with me. I knew it was wrong, and wouldn't be the answer or be able to live with myself knowing I'd done that to her, so broke up with her before doing anything with anyone else. Cheating isn't the reason people break up, usually (unless your libido is uncontrollable like my mate) - you cheat because somethings wrong in the relationship, it's the symptom, not the illness. Post script - I never did get anywhere with the girl I was interested in and my ex went back to my mate, who while they accepted there wasn't much basis for a serious relationship, they remained fuck-buddies for years. She's now happily married to someone else.

However.... if it sounds like I treated my poor besotted ex like shit, don't worry, karma came back for me. My first serious relationship (living together, the works) came to a sudden end after 3 years when my then-mrs broke up with me - some smaller issues I'd not fixed were apparently bigger than I thought. She moved, I moved in with a friend... then a few weeks later she came crawling back, saying she couldn't imagine her life without me and that we were soulmates. So, I sucked it up, took her back, and started working on my flaws. About a year later something just seemed off... she was distant, didn't always show up when she'd agreed to come round, and just didn't seem to be herself. I did some digging and found out not only had she just started cheating on me with a guy from her work, but 12 months earlier when she broke up with me, it's because she'd been cheating on me THEN with a different guy, even moved in with him (ludicrously quickly, closer to work for both of them) and only came back to me when she realized he was a total knob with drug problems. I finished with her pretty sharpish but tried to keep some dignity by telling her not what I knew, but that "I think we've drifted apart" and "I think if you're honest you see me more as a friend than a boyfriend these days." I threw up for a couple of days over it, reeling from the betrayal and feelings of worthlessness. The first time she'd at least broken up with me after sleeping with dickhead #1 the first time, but who knows how long she was going to keep me on the hook while sleeping with dickhead #2. About 3 months later she rang me hysteric - work was going terrible, she was off with depression, she didnt know if she was going to stay in the area or go back to her parents, and (she wouldn't have known that I knew this) fling #2 had turned out to be stringing her along that he would leave his girlfriend (mother of his kids) for her, and was never going to. I went round (against my better judgment, with hindsight) to try and pick her up a bit over a pizza and a DVD and at the end of the night when I went to get a taxi she said "You don't have to go, you can stay, I can drive you to work in the morning" and I knew where it would go if I stayed. And while "little raid" implored me to stay, I'm not a mug, and wasn't going to be fooled a third time. I knew I'd want things to go back to serious like they were before, but equally that I knew I could never trust her again. Thankfully for her not long later a new dickhead came on the scene, and about the same time, I lost interest in what she was doing and moved on my life never to look back, ignoring her friend request on Facebook about three years later and only slightly feeling a bit weirded out when I saw her mug in the Argos catalogue a couple of years after that.

So... speaking as someone that knows temptation but never cheated, never could cheat, but knows how it feels to be cheated on... in my experience, once you know someone has that in their locker, you can never trust them. I'm a bit binary in my attitude to cheating - you're a person who's capable of it or you aren't, and if you are, you are, indelibly.

But again.... that's my experiences only and YMMV.

[Matthew]

See for me, I’ve cheated in the past, but with this relationship, and my previous, I’d been completely loyal.

I know it could be an element of karma, but I’m hopefully that’s a work of fiction, but I’d like to think this shows that the “once a cheater always a cheater” mantra isn’t always accurate.

Its now the 4th day that I’ve not heard from her, she’s due to be out tomorrow evening, and I’m just in overdrive thinking if she’ll meet someone else, etc.

I’ve had trouble sleeping, when I do I dream of her. I’ve been struggling with my own mental health issues since. I’ve been lucky enough to get a private therapist paid for by my employer through Bupa, as I think there are some underlying issues with abandonment, and trust that need to be addressed.

But none of this really resolves the situation in the way I’d hope, in getting back together, and resolving the issues, moving forwards to all the hopes and dreams we’d discussed together, such as moving in together and marriage.

[DavidB6937]

It does sound like it'd probably be in thr back of your mind even if you did manage to patch things up with her. And it'd be hard to make something work if you're constantly on the edge worrying about what might happen. Do you think you'd be able to move past it all and enjoy the relationship properly?

[johnnyboy]

1 hour ago, Matthew said:

I know it could be an element of karma, but I’m hopefully that’s a work of fiction, but I’d like to think this shows that the “once a cheater always a cheater” mantra isn’t always accurate.

It's not really true.  There are serial cheaters, serial monogamists, people who have isolated instances of falling off either wagon, and everything in between.  People have the capacity to grow and change, but that doesn't mean that they will.

[Matthew]

10 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

Do you think you'd be able to move past it all and enjoy the relationship properly?

I’d like to think so. The problem I’ve got is that I trusted her with my life, and let my trust issues down more than I have with anybody, she’d go out with her male friends and I wouldn’t bat an eyelid once that trust was built. 
 

Update:

Against some of my friends’ better wishes, I text her tonight; just to check in, let her know I was here and loved her. She ignored it, and didn’t even open it. I’ve taken some time away from social media so I’m no longer looking at things, and just to take some time to clear my head.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Matthew

[LaGoosh]

I think it's over, mate. And if it's not...you should end it. 

Fundamentally, you want different things. And really, if you want to have a happy and fulfilling life you need to be with someone who wants the same things as you, whatever those are. You shouldn't have to sacrifice something as huge as having a family for someone else.

And you especially shouldn't do that for someone who has now shown they have the capacity to cheat on you. A real relationship is built on trust. I say this from experience. My first wife cheated on me, I forgave her because I loved her so much and we moved forward. At least I thought I forgave her...it was impossible for me to do that in reality. It festered in my gut for years and a hate slowly grew there. I was never genuinely happy with her after that because the bedrock of trust was gone. Years later she cheated again because hey I guess the thing that I thought was out of character the first time wasn't actually out of character. 

Now I'm with my second wife, we've been together for 8 years. She's amazing in so many ways but what really makes the relationship work is that incredible foundation of trust it's built on. And we've now got a child and creating a family with someone you love and trust is a truly amazing thing. You deserve that. Don't sacrifice it for someone you can't trust.

Edited October 20, 2023 by LaGoosh

[LaGoosh]

Hope you're doing ok @Matthew