UFC Fight Night: Overeem vs Arlovski - May 8th

[ColinBollocks]

What the fucking fuck of fucksville? Chael submitting Shogun in a round? What's happening? I was going to act all embarrassed that I'd previously said Chael finishing Shogun was, to quote Gorilla Monsoon, "highly unlikely", but who saw that coming? He made Shogun look a right chump, I can't believe it. I underestimated Chael's BJJ. I put the Stann fight down to Stann being crap off his back, but I can't say that tonight. Win or lose, no-one usually comes out of a fight with Shogun unscathed, and Chael just squashed him like he was a jobber on early 90s WCW Worldwide. Stunned. It's exactly what Chael needed coming off the consecutive losses. Hard to see where Shogun goes from here, it's sad to see him lose like that. It might be time to just do that Machida rubber match if Machida vs Belfort doesn't come off. If not, throw him and Nog on the next TUF Brazil.

While the manner of the victory was a slight surprise, I'm amazed anybody saw any other outcome than Sonnen winning. Fair enough, Sonnen isn't good enough to beat Silva/Jones, but he's pretty much dominated the other contenders, the bloke is World class. Granted, I didn't expect a first round submission win, but Sonnen wrestling and tiring Shogun always seemed the most likely outcome - that's even with all the "he can hit like a bloke now" hype. Like you say, that was how you rehab after a couple of losses (even if they're against the two greatest fighters ever); kick arse then unleash a promo hyping another match, with added threats to Joe Rogan.

 

I think we can all agree that Comedy Overeem is the best thing in MMA. Genuinely one of the most moronic fighters in recent memory; if a bloke was spending the entire fight doing a front kick, I'd perhaps consider not plodding straight towards him. He was good for the first couple of minutes, mind. Still...

[David]

It's hard to tell but he's still substantially less ripped than he was against Brock. Just watch that vid on youtube of Arriany Celeste's reaction to get a true grasp of just how ripped Overeem was during the weigh in's.

You can't compare how he looks during a weigh-in to how he looks at a photo shoot days before, or even how he looks on fight night. He'll have cut weight to make the limit.

 

Most fighters look ripped as Hell during the weigh in.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion? Did you even see Overeem at his weigh in for the big foot fight? He wasn't ripped at all.

Come to what conclusion? That most fighters look ripped as hell during the weigh-in? That Overeem will be a good bit lighter at the weigh-in than he will on fight night? You've been watching MMA long enough to know that fighters cut as much weight as possible before rehydrating afterwards, right? That would lead to them looking ripped as hell. It's quite simple, really.

 

I never said that Overeem does or doesn't look ripped, I said that to compare a photo of him at a photoshoot, taken days or even weeks before a fight, or how he looks after 24 hours of rehydrating to how he looks at a weigh-in is just plain stupid.

 

Fighters will always look more cut on weigh in night, when they've cut weight and drained of water they look shredded.

 

However, it wont apply to Overeem, heavyweights dont cut (except for a rare few)...im pretty sure Overeem doesnt cut anything, why would he?

I'm sure he does cut weight. He usually comes in at around the limit, doesn't he?

 

If they're testing these guys how they say, then they don't have an unfair advantage, but I think if you've abused steroids in the past you should have to deal with the consequences that shit causes to your body.

The truth is, if you're under forty years of age and your levels are low you've probably been using something earlier in your career. That goes for both Sonnen and Henderson.

 

There should be no allowances given to anyone. At all.

 

As for Overeem, he simply went for the big finish, and nine times out of ten his opponent would crumble under that attack. Truth be told, if the official had dived in to stop it I doubt we'd have seen many complaints.

 

The writing was on the wall after Browne survived the onslaught, as Overeem was gassed out, and he also has a tendency to crumble mentally when his plan A fails. He didn't look like a man who believed he could win after that.

[wandshogun09]

While the manner of the victory was a slight surprise, I'm amazed anybody saw any other outcome than Sonnen winning. Fair enough, Sonnen isn't good enough to beat Silva/Jones, but he's pretty much dominated the other contenders, the bloke is World class. Granted, I didn't expect a first round submission win, but Sonnen wrestling and tiring Shogun always seemed the most likely outcome - that's even with all the "he can hit like a bloke now" hype. Like you say, that was how you rehab after a couple of losses (even if they're against the two greatest fighters ever); kick arse then unleash a promo hyping another match, with added threats to Joe Rogan.

 

Yeah, it was all in how it ended that shocked me, not that Sonnen won. I just thought Shogun would get his chances to land some shots and I didn't fancy Chael standing up to Shogun's punches. And on the ground I always thought Shogun's sweep game could cause Chael some problems, and that Shogun might even be able to submit him from the bottom. But I was basing that off the Chael who repeatedly threw himself into triangles and armbars for years. Even his harshest critics would have to admit he's made improvements. He had a great gameplan as well, because when they were on the ground he stayed in Shogun's half guard which really didn't leave Shogun many options for sweeps or submissions. I'm still shocked how it ended.

 

I think we can all agree that Comedy Overeem is the best thing in MMA. Genuinely one of the most moronic fighters in recent memory; if a bloke was spending the entire fight doing a front kick, I'd perhaps consider not plodding straight towards him. He was good for the first couple of minutes, mind. Still...

 

That was odd. As soon as Browne hit that first front kick and it slipped through Reem's guard and clipped his chin, Reem did this little face like it hurt/surprised him. Browne obviously noticed as well because immediately he started throwing that kick over and over. It was quite weird how a striker as experienced as Overeem could still manage to get knocked out by that when Browne threw it about 10 times just before.

 

Fighters will always look more cut on weigh in night, when they've cut weight and drained of water they look shredded.

 

However, it wont apply to Overeem, heavyweights dont cut (except for a rare few)...im pretty sure Overeem doesnt cut anything, why would he?

I'm sure he does cut weight. He usually comes in at around the limit, doesn't he?

 

Yeah, he was 264 against Bigfoot and 263 against Brock. He was about 10lbs lighter for this fight though so he's obviously leaned out a little bit recently, I guess hoping it would help his cardio out. It might have, but most heavyweights would have gassed going for the kill like he did last night.

 

The truth is, if you're under forty years of age and your levels are low you've probably been using something earlier in your career. That goes for both Sonnen and Henderson.

 

There should be no allowances given to anyone. At all.

 

I agree with that but what about Bigfoot? I don't know a lot about acromegaly but from what his manager was saying recently, the treatment he's had to have for his condition over the years has left his levels low. If he needed it would that not be classed as a legit reason? It's through no fault of his own.

 

I agree with your main point though. I'm uneasy with the whole TRT business. There seems to be too much room for manipulation.

 

EDIT - oh yeah, according to Meltzer, Chael wants the Wand fight at UFC 168 on Dec 28th. Not the Nov PPV as I'd predicted. Fuck. Add that fight to Weidman vs Silva 2 and Rousey vs Tate 2, I actually think it's more stacked than UFC 100 was. Might not draw as well (100 did have Brock AND GSP) but for me personally, those three fights together would top UFC 100.

[jimufctna24]

Decent show.

 

Chael's submission training with Vinny Magalhaes had paid off. In the wake of his last two fights (which he lost to the two best fighters in the world) it was easy to underrate Chael. His at times animated persona can make you forget he is a skilled fighter, one of the better wrestlers in the sport and a hard nosed grinder. In was simple last night, Chael outgrappled Shogun. The best win of Chael's career. I think Chael should go back to 185lbs where he can avoid Jones and any size disadvantages that may prevent him from deploying his grappling game. I think it is more likely he will get a title shot at 185lbs than 205lbs also. Chael vs Weidman could happen if Weidman continues to reign.

 

McGregor was brilliant. Showcased he can grapple and fought with the confidence of a fighter on the rise. McGregor showed he can be a octagon general taking the center on the octagon and constantly pressuring Hollaway. When McGregor had Hollaway on the back foot against the cage he threw with such confidence, it was like he was expecting to knock Hollaway out. McGregor was very similar to how Nick Diaz used to strike in Strikeforce against the likes of Frank Shamrock, he was the aggressor and the general. Very impressed.

 

The rest has been covered by others elsewhere, so I will not repeat what others have said.

 

The writing was on the wall after Browne survived the onslaught, as Overeem was gassed out, and he also has a tendency to crumble mentally when his plan A fails. He didn't look like a man who believed he could win after that.

Agreed with this, you could feel as a viewer the flow of the fight change instantly.

[wandshogun09]

 

Every fight he seems to come out looking like this. It's too early to declare him shot obviously, I'd like to believe he'll come back better, but you have to wonder if all the wars are catching up to him. He never looked in it last night. Of course a big part of that was down to Michael Johnson having his career best performance, but Lauzon is usually a fast starter yet he looked deflated right from the start to me. Then as the fight was coming to a close there was no urgency about him at all. Remember the Jim Miller fight where he was down on the scorecards but tried that flying leg lock in the dying seconds just to make something happen? There was nothing last night.

 

I've said about Shogun before, that stretch where he fought Jones, Griffin, Vera, Hendo and Gustafsson was brutal. It might have finished him. Only the Griffin fight was an easy night's work. The rest were long, drawn out, grueling fights which he took a load of punishment in. He was banged up coming into this series of fights, so fuck knows what is left now. Lauzon might be going through a similar thing sadly. Look at his last few fights...

 

Decision loss to Johnson (took a bad 15 min beating).

Decision loss to Miller (took an even worse beating).

Submission win vs Varner (but it was a war which he took a lot of damage in early on).

KO loss to Pettis (suffered a brutal headkick which switched him off).

 

Like Shogun, Lauzon's known for being in exciting fights, he's the bonus king of the UFC. But that might have come at a price. It's very rare that fighters like Lauzon, Shogun and Gatti have long shelf lives.

 

We'll have to wait and see I suppose. But for most fighters, one war like the types Shogun and Lauzon have fought in recent years can be the end of a career. And these two have been in a bunch of these type of fights consecutively. It has to take a toll.

[METAL ON METAL]

A few months ago Lauzon said long stand up battles are the type of fights he really doesn't want to be involved in anymore as it takes such a physical toll on him these days, last night's fight was certainly one of those.

[David]

I agree with that but what about Bigfoot? I don't know a lot about acromegaly but from what his manager was saying recently, the treatment he's had to have for his condition over the years has left his levels low. If he needed it would that not be classed as a legit reason? It's through no fault of his own.

 

I agree with your main point though. I'm uneasy with the whole TRT business. There seems to be too much room for manipulation.

Obviously Bigfoot would be the exception to the rule, being as he has a legit medical condition that he was born with. Funnily enough, he's the one guy who has every right to use it, yet he hasn't, has he?

[JNLister]

EDIT - oh yeah, according to Meltzer, Chael wants the Wand fight at UFC 168 on Dec 28th. Not the Nov PPV as I'd predicted. Fuck. Add that fight to Weidman vs Silva 2 and Rousey vs Tate 2, I actually think it's more stacked than UFC 100 was. Might not draw as well (100 did have Brock AND GSP) but for me personally, those three fights together would top UFC 100.

 

I wonder if third on the December 28 show would pay better than second on the November show? Obviously depends on your specific contract and PPV cut.

[wandshogun09]

Obviously Bigfoot would be the exception to the rule, being as he has a legit medical condition that he was born with. Funnily enough, he's the one guy who has every right to use it, yet he hasn't, has he?

 

I was on about that the other day. You're right, Bigfoot doesn't use TRT. His manager said he's probably the only guy on the roster who has a legitimate reason to, but he doesn't use it.

 

EDIT - oh yeah, according to Meltzer, Chael wants the Wand fight at UFC 168 on Dec 28th. Not the Nov PPV as I'd predicted. Fuck. Add that fight to Weidman vs Silva 2 and Rousey vs Tate 2, I actually think it's more stacked than UFC 100 was. Might not draw as well (100 did have Brock AND GSP) but for me personally, those three fights together would top UFC 100.

 

I wonder if third on the December 28 show would pay better than second on the November show? Obviously depends on your specific contract and PPV cut.

 

That's an interesting point. I wonder how the PPV cut thing works. You'd think a fighter would get a bigger cut if he's main or co-main event. Just because there's usually more hype on the fights in those positions on the card. Dana and Lorenzo have said before though, if they think a guy/girl lower down the card has promoted their fight/the card well, they'll give him/her a bonus. I know it wasn't a PPV but I'd assume Conor McGregor will be getting an extra few zeros on his paycheque for this show, considering most of the build up for this event was centered around him.

 

As far as the base pay in the contracts, I wonder if you get paid more for main or co-main eventing. It probably does depend on the individual. What would happen though, to use a recent example, in the case of UFC 161? Rashad Evans vs Dan Henderson went from third PPV fight to main event when Shogun-Nog and Barao-Wineland fell apart. I wonder if their money got bumped up a bit when the fight got promoted to headliner.

 

I never really thought about it before.

[Supremo]

Chael Sonnen wins by submission and Overeem gets knocked out again?

 

Yeah, probably my favourite MMA show of all time.

[niff]

I'm completely hooked, Sonnen looked like he really meant business and Overeem is comical. I much prefer the pundit who was standing in for Rogan at the show in Rio, for a newbie like myself he explains it so much better.

[deathrey]

Did anyone else's BT Sports cut out during the Overeem fight? I wasn't pleased about that. Gutted that Shogun lost, I never would have imagined who would lose via a submission. I think everything that could be said about the card has already been said so no point in repeating it

[David]

Did anyone else's BT Sports cut out during the Overeem fight? I wasn't pleased about that.

Yeah, mines did that. It came back literally a second before Browne threw the kick that ended the bout.

[deathrey]

Yeah, same here, it cut out for quite a bit though so one minute Overeem was incharge and then it cut and he was KO'd, I missed quite a bit of the match.

[wandshogun09]

Did anyone else's BT Sports cut out during the Overeem fight? I wasn't pleased about that. Gutted that Shogun lost, I never would have imagined who would lose via a submission. I think everything that could be said about the card has already been said so no point in repeating it

 

Yeah mine cut out as well. The air was blue in my house for about 30 seconds.

 

Bit of a weird thought but me and my brother were on about the Sonnen-Shogun fight earlier, and my brother mentioned how it was kind of eery how Babalu was cornering Shogun last night, then Sonnen beats Shogun by guillotine. Shogun's first career loss was a submission via guillotine...almost 10 years ago exactly...to Babalu. Weird. I hadn't even made that connection.

 

Niff, you're thinking of Brian Stann. He was great at UFC 163. In fact, it wasn't until hearing Rogan again last night that I realised just how much I preferred Stann. Rogan wasn't even bad last night but I found myself wishing he'd piss off and let Action Man back on the headsets. I wouldn't be at all against Stann taking Rogan's place permanently to be honest.