UFC Fight Night: Overeem vs Arlovski - May 8th

[Supremo]

I'll be interested to hear how Overeem's drug tests come back. It was hilarious to hear how low his testosterone was for the Big Foot fight. The mong has completely ruined his natural ability to produce it so now that he's being strictly tested he's probably going to always have to go into fights with dangerously low levels. Ideally he'll continue to get knocked out like he did in his last fight too. God, that was satisfying.

[lambyUK]

I'll be interested to hear how Overeem's drug tests come back. It was hilarious to hear how low his testosterone was for the Big Foot fight. The mong has completely ruined his natural ability to produce it so now that he's being strictly tested he's probably going to always have to go into fights with dangerously low levels. Ideally he'll continue to get knocked out like he did in his last fight too. God, that was satisfying.

 

You've got to remember though there's probably nothing stopping him going via the TRT route.

[Egg Shen]

It's hard to tell but he's still substantially less ripped than he was against Brock. Just watch that vid on youtube of Arriany Celeste's reaction to get a true grasp of just how ripped Overeem was during the weigh in's.

You can't compare how he looks during a weigh-in to how he looks at a photo shoot days before, or even how he looks on fight night. He'll have cut weight to make the limit.

 

Most fighters look ripped as Hell during the weigh in.

 

How on earth do you come to that conclusion? Did you even see Overeem at his weigh in for the big foot fight? He wasn't ripped at all.

Fighters will always look more cut on weigh in night, when they've cut weight and drained of water they look shredded.

 

However, it wont apply to Overeem, heavyweights dont cut (except for a rare few)...im pretty sure Overeem doesnt cut anything, why would he?

[Supremo]

I'll be interested to hear how Overeem's drug tests come back. It was hilarious to hear how low his testosterone was for the Big Foot fight. The mong has completely ruined his natural ability to produce it so now that he's being strictly tested he's probably going to always have to go into fights with dangerously low levels. Ideally he'll continue to get knocked out like he did in his last fight too. God, that was satisfying.

 

You've got to remember though there's probably nothing stopping him going via the TRT route.

Not in Vegas. Keith Kizer, when asked about TRT, has already stated that it's very unlikely that they'd grant an exemption for anyone who's already been busted for steroids. Their ruling is that if the fighter has low levels due to prior attempts at cheating, then it excludes them from being allowed to use TRT in the future, even of there's a genuine medical need for it. As I understand it, this ruling also applies for many other commissions too. It's brilliant; Overeem has completely fucked himself over since coming to the UFC. He turned himself into a test-dodging laughing stock, then trapped himself in this weird limbo where he's left with no choice but to fight at a massive disadvantage.

 

It's almost enough to make you feel sorry for him. Except it's absolutely hilarious and couldn't have happened to a bigger knobhead, with the worst fans in the sport.

[lambyUK]

That's a very good point Supremo. I forgot the commission's new ruling about new TRT applicants. Then again, I woildnt be surprised to see fighters find a loophole around it.

 

Just a quick question, if a fighter were on TRT, but only brought their T levels to 1:1, rather than the allowed limit, would the fighter even have to declare usage? Could Overeem use to get his levels up to normal levels for instance? I'm guessing a positive test is determined when that ratio is ridiculously high, rather than testing positive with a synthetic substance in your body?

[Egg Shen]

TRT is only used to bring levels to normal aint it? TRT isnt allowing guys to go in the cage with super testosterone levels, its simply allowing guys to bring level back to where they should be.

[wandshogun09]

However, it wont apply to Overeem, heavyweights dont cut (except for a rare few)...im pretty sure Overeem doesnt cut anything, why would he?

 

You'd think not considering he used to be a skinny, although ripped, light heavyweight. But I think he probably does have to cut. He weighed in at 264 vs Bigfoot and 263 vs Brock.

 

Not in Vegas. Keith Kizer, when asked about TRT, has already stated that it's very unlikely that they'd grant an exemption for anyone who's already been busted for steroids. Their ruling is that if the fighter has low levels due to prior attempts at cheating, then it excludes them from being allowed to use TRT in the future, even of there's a genuine medical need for it. As I understand it, this ruling also applies for many other commissions too. It's brilliant; Overeem has completely fucked himself over since coming to the UFC. He turned himself into a test-dodging laughing stock, then trapped himself in this weird limbo where he's left with no choice but to fight at a massive disadvantage.

 

That's true. It's also believed to be the reason they keep putting Vitor Belfort on Brazil cards because he's unlikely to be granted a TUE by the Vegas commission because he got busted for steroids in 2006. Funnily enough he fought 'Mr TRT' Hendo that night. I'm sure I read Hendo fought his last two fights without TRT as well. Not sure why because as far as I know he's never been popped for PEDs. And by all accounts he follows all the guidelines to the letter for using the stuff.

 

I'd never thought of Overeem's situation like that before. Really, as much as I enjoy watching Overeem fight, if his past cheating and the advantages that come with it has now, years later, left him at a disadvantage there's a bit of justice in that. You reap what you sow.

 

And it's funny, for all the shit Cro Cop, Wandy and Shogun used to get from fans saying there were roided to the gills in Pride, I don't see any of them pissing about with TRT.

 

TRT is only used to bring levels to normal aint it? TRT isnt allowing guys to go in the cage with super testosterone levels, its simply allowing guys to bring level back to where they should be.

 

That's the hope but there's always the risk of guys abusing it. Dana says that now, if you apply for TRT you'll be subjected to a shitload of testing, throughout your training camp, to monitor your levels and make sure they stay in a certain range. That sounds good but who knows how much that is actually enforced and how much of what he said was to get the media off his back.

[jimufctna24]

TRT is only used to bring levels to normal aint it? TRT isnt allowing guys to go in the cage with super testosterone levels, its simply allowing guys to bring level back to where they should be.

Fighters can abuse it some places though, like Brazil where the drug testing is not as legit.

[wandshogun09]

TRT is only used to bring levels to normal aint it? TRT isnt allowing guys to go in the cage with super testosterone levels, its simply allowing guys to bring level back to where they should be.

Fighters can abuse it some places though, like Brazil where the drug testing is not as legit.

 

It might not be as stringent as the Vegas commission but I don't think we can go as far as saying it's not as legit. They do test guys on the Brazil cards. Thiago Tavares got popped earlier this year, and I'm sure one or two others have. There's no commission there I don't think, but they use the same guys they use for the European cards. The same guys who pulled Gustafsson out of the Mousasi fight in Sweden.

 

I don't really know why these questions only come up on the Brazil cards but not the ones UK, Sweden, Germany etc. They use the same people as far as I'm aware.

 

I think it's probably because people get caught up on the Belfort thing. But like I said, keeping Belfort fighting in Brazil doesn't mean they're saying 'Alright Vit, no-one's watching, pump yourself full of whatever you like lad'. He'd still be tested along with the rest of the guys on the card. Remember the fuss Bisping made after he fought Belfort then a report came out after the event that someone cheated? Bisping started having a meltdown calling Belfort all sorts, the fans assumed it was him as well. Then it turned out it wasn't Vitor at all, it was Tavares. Keeping Vitor in Brazil is probably a case of 1) he says he needs TRT and the Vegas commission is unlikely to let him use it, and 2) he is one of the most popular fighters in that market. I don't think they're keeping him there so he can just juice up willy nilly. Why would they give Vitor special treatment when they don't do that for anyone else?

[jimufctna24]

It might not be as stringent as the Vegas commission but I don't think we can go as far as saying it's not as legit.

Same thing to me really. The more stringent a commission is in policing PED's the more legit its policies will be.

 

The Tavres point is a good one. However, I do not think people believe that Belfort gets special treatment, more of a case that he has the money/status/connections, to use the top level masking agents that may slip through the Brazil commissions fingers. Its highly problematic to judge on appearance, but Tavres did look like he would be the type to over-indulge and given his place on the card, I doubt he has the cash to really splash out on the best gear.

 

Its unfair to single Vitor out, and I do believe his recent success is partly due to him changing up his techniques as a figher, but he has a lot of previous, a lot of previous. He got busted in Pride's visit to Vegas in 2006 and there was speculation he did not fight for Cage Rage in 2005 due to some drug related problems.

 

The reasons why the Brazil commissions get it in the neck, is because the UFC visits there more. England and Sweden only get visited once a year, they go to Brazil seemingly every 2-3 months or so these days.

 

Ignore anything Bisping says though, the man clearly was pursuing a vendetta even if he did have a point.

[wandshogun09]

Fair points but Belfort's previous is going back to 2006/07. We're talking 6 or 7 years. It doesn't mean he's been pumped full of PEDs ever since. But I do agree, like Overeem, he shouldn't be allowed to use TRT now. From everything Dana has said, they've had absolutely no problem with testing Vitor and he's been within the right levels throughout, but like Overeem, whatever happened to his testosterone is likely down to his past steroid use and I dont believe you should get help for that by using TRT years later. If they're testing these guys how they say, then they don't have an unfair advantage, but I think if you've abused steroids in the past you should have to deal with the consequences that shit causes to your body.

 

The masking agent thing, it's possible but its all speculation. You could level that accusation at anyone at the top level in any sport. There might be truth to it but it's a weird road to go down. You could just throw that at anyone you didn't like. I could say I have 'sources' that know Frank Mir has been sticking needles in his arse for 10 years but because he's got money, he buys masking agents. There's no facts to prove my story, yet Frank Mir himself wouldn't be able to prove me wrong. Despite the fact I've just made that up, it would be my word against his. And some of that shit would stick.

 

I don't doubt the possibilty that that stuff is going on with some guys who are on top money, but we can't base anything on pure speculation.

 

I know you're not saying this but I see a lot of 'Dana is protecting Vitor, he's keeping him in Brazil and letting him use steroids' type stuff. It's silly talk. If they were into doing that, why didn't they 'protect' Overeem? He had money written all over him when they signed him. They could've done huge business with him fighting Cain and JDS and he could've brought some starpower to the heavyweight division at the perfect time with Brock fucking off. If Brazil is the place to send cheaters and let them juice for fights, they could easily have done Overeem vs JDS last year in Brazil, and avoided him getting chased through the Vegas car park by Keith Kizer and given the dreaded test which led to his suspension. If they were as corrupt as some fans make out, why didn't they 'protect' that investment?

[jimufctna24]

The masking agent thing, it's possible but its all speculation. You could level that accusation at anyone at the top level in any sport. There might be truth to it but it's a weird road to go down. You could just throw that at anyone you didn't like. I could say I have 'sources' that know Frank Mir has been sticking needles in his arse for 10 years but because he's got money, he buys masking agents. There's no facts to prove my story, yet Frank Mir himself wouldn't be able to prove me wrong. Despite the fact I've just made that up, it would be my word against his. And some of that shit would stick.

True. It is all speculation. We can never tell for sure.

 

But by that logic we could say that Overeem bulking up in Japan in the mid-00's being down to PED's was pure speculation. I would say that was simple "cause and effect" with no regulation in Japan, it was logical that Overeem was indulging to increase his size. Whilst this has never been proven 100%, you will not find many who believe that Overeem has been clean over the years.

 

I agree with your general jist, I do not want to turn this debate into some fanboy witchhunt like some fans do on other forums. I agree some of the conspiracy theories are just bitter fans letting their minds run wild. Belfort is a strange case.

 

For the record, I am not sure about TRT in regards to what I think of it. What I do think is that it should be strongly regulated and policed by all commissions, in the wrong hands it could be abused to the max.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah I'm not trying to fanboy witch hunt either. I'm a fan of Belfort but I don't think he should be able to use TRT. The funny thing is, I read an interview a while back with Alex Davis, who has managed Bigfoot for years. And he was saying that as a result of all the treatment Bigfoot has had over the years to treat his acromegaly (which sounded fucking horrific, by the way) he's been left with low testosterone through no fault of his own. Davis said Bigfoot is probably the only guy on the entire UFC roster who actually should be on TRT. But he's not. If Bigfoot goes without when he has a legitimate reason to use it, I don't see why these other guys have to use it.

 

Anyway, balls to all that. It's fight day. Here's the weigh in results;

 

MAIN CARD - FOX SPORTS 1

Mauricio Rua (205) vs Chael Sonnen (205)

Travis Browne (236) vs Alistair Overeem (255.5)

Yuri Alcantara (136) vs Urijah Faber (135.5)

Matt Brown (171) vs Mike Pyle (170)

Uriah Hall (184) vs John Howard (185)

Michael Johnson (156) vs Joe Lauzon (156)

 

PRELIMINARY CARD - FOX SPORTS 1

Michael McDonald (135.5) vs Brad Pickett (135.5)

Max Holloway (145) vs Conor McGregor (146)

Mike Brown (145.5) vs Steven Siler (145.5)

Diego Brandao (146) vs Daniel Pineda (144.5)

 

PRELIMINARY CARD - FACEBOOK

Manny Gamburyan (145.5) vs Cole Miller (146)

Cody Donovan (204) vs Ovince St. Preux (205.5)

Ramsey Nijem (156) vs James Vick (155)

 

[jimufctna24]

Someone had a point about Shogun, determining his performance on his physique is faulty. He had a right gut on him in the second Machida fight from a picture I saw last night. He looked okay at the weigh in, not ripped or toned but not as soft as he has been in the past.

 

Anyway, I am sticking with him tonight as a friend is picking Sonnen and I want to keep it interesting. Its 50/50 though.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, Shogun always looks a bit pudgy. Even in the Pride days, he looked a bit less soft but he was never what you'd call ripped. He was flabbier than usual for that second Machida fight, but I'm sure he'd been laid up for part of his camp after having some surgery (appendix I think). My fear tonight is that the times Shogun really seems to fade is when he's grappling a lot. He's always got that ability to finish though, which Sonnen lacks when he's fighting almost anyone but Brian Stann. Shogun is lethal when he's got someone hurt. And that was before Freddie Roach showed him how to punch like a big boy.

 

Who are you picking for the rest of the card? Here's my picks;

 

Shogun vs Sonnen

Going with Shogun by KO in the early rounds. We've gone into this at length so I won't bother with reasons again. It's a really tough call though.

 

Overeem vs Browne

Another one I'm almost 50/50 on. I'll go with Overeem though, early KO. If it goes past round one it's anyone's because Reem almost always fades. We'll see. I just think Overeem is the better striker and Browne likes to stand. I have a feeling Reem will catch him early doors. Overeem coming in 10lbs lighter could be a wise move as well, theoretically he should be quicker and possibly have more stamina if it goes longer. Fuck knows. I could definitely see Browne catching him, and Reem doesn't react well when things go wrong. Just think he'll land a big knee or something before it gets that far.

 

Faber vs Alcantara

Can't see past Arse Chin. Faber usually looks like a world beater against anyone but the champs. Alcantara is good though, he's tough and has a solid record. He's pretty unheralded but I see Faber as a class above. I got Faber on a comfy decision or maybe a submission.

 

Brown vs Pyle

Going with Pyle by submission, round 2. Brown has been on fire lately but that run of consecutive submission losses he had a while back is stuck in my head whenever he faces a good BJJ guy. And Pyle knows all the tricks. Brown's not bad on the ground, he stays active and keeps it exciting, but I think Pyle is too crafty for him. If it stays standing I give Brown the edge but Pyle is no slouch anywhere. Should be good.

 

Hall vs Howard

Fuck knows with this. Haven't seen Howard fight in ages, and wasn't he at 170 before? How will he look at 185? Like the last event with Thales Leites, I haven't seen enough of Howard recently to really make an informed pick so this is a bit of a tricky one. Howard's a very good striker and he has good BJJ as well, he could give Hall a rough night. Sod it, Hall by Hadouken.

 

Lauzon vs Johnson

Got Lauzon by submission. Danny Castillo showed Johnson can be finished with a strong BJJ game and Lauzon has that hand to play if he chooses. The danger for Lauzon might be if he lets the hometown crowd hype him too much and he comes in over aggressive. Johnson is dangerous. I like Lauzon here though. And if he looks anything like he did in his last fight in Boston, where he absolutely wrecked Gabe Ruediger in about a minute, Johnson will really have his hands full.

 

Pickett vs McDonald

Another 50/50. I don't even have much to say other than I can't wait for this fight. This, Shogun-Sonnen, Lauzon-Johnson and McGregor-Holloway are my frontrunners to bag FOTN. But mostly this. I'll lean towards McDonald on points in a cracker.

 

McGregor vs Holloway

It's getting redundant now but yet another ridiculously hard call. I'm picking McGregor. I'm on the bandwagon and I hope he goes all the way. Holloway is a huge test though and maybe just as promising from a pure talent perspective. McGregor has star potential though and I like his attitude as well as his fighting style. Holloway is an excellent technical striker but he leaves his chin up quite a bit. Even a wide open slugger like Leonard Garcia was able to land quite a bit on him. So I'll say, McGregor by KO in two after a fun back and forth.

 

This is going to be awesome. The crowd should be mental considering it's the first UFC in Boston since 2010. They should be electric for Lauzon and McGregor especially.