UFC 148: Silva vs. Sonnen II Thread

[Bus Surfer]

I agree with alot if what you're saying, but I don't think your giving GSP's striking enough credit there Jim. Yes he didn't look that great against Shields, but I believe the eye issues were a big factor in that, he hasn't looked that uncomfortable on his feet for a long time. The way I see it, you need a hell of alot of control and discipline to beat Anderson, GSP fits that mould for me.

[lambyUK]

Quite an interesting watch, Chael Sonnen's open workout from UFC 148. About 10mins 30 plus in you see him intensively working on the spinning backfist.

 

[Egg Shen]

It'll probably go down as the most ill-advised move in MMA history.

[wandshogun09]

It'll probably go down as the most ill-advised move in MMA history.

 

Yep. That and Nog's guillotine attempt on Mir in their second fight. That was probably even worse I reckon because Nog went from being a couple of punches away from winning to lying there looking at his mangled arm, within the space of about 30 seconds.

 

At least with Chael's backfist you can put it down to desperation because Anderson stuffed his takedown. Nog had Mir halfway to sleep but the refs warnings or his own BJJ pride to prove he was better, or a mixture of both maybe, led to him making that silly error.

 

It still pisses me off now.

[Egg Shen]

there's been some shockers over the years

 

Chael Sonnen talks 148!

 

great lil interview, check it.

[David]

Good interview with Sonnen there, and it pretty much confirms that he's not retiring, and that he's not going to WWE.

[Supremo]

I remember the BJ/GSP incident but not what came of it, if anything?

Shit loads came of it, all of which goes against your ridiculous argument that guys can come into fights, "soaking wet or oiled up."

 

Both the UFC and the Nevada State Athletic Commision changed their rules to crack down on greasing. First Keith Kizer went on record as saying that, "any amount (of vaseline) on the body is excessive in mixed martial arts." Then Nevada amended their rules so that it was considered illegal to be, "applying any foreign substance to the hair, body, clothing or gloves immediately prior to or during a contest or exhibition that could result in an unfair advantage."

 

Meanwhile,

and the UFC modified their rules so that corner men could no longer carry vaseline and only official, "cut men," could apply vaseline to the fighter's face.

 

Hardly, "tantamount to fuck all," is it?

[wandshogun09]

Yeah I remember all that greasegate stuff with GSP/BJ 2. And BJ Penn bringing his mom to court with him

 

Chael came across really well in that interview. That's the 'real' Chael there, he just gets too caught up in all the trash talk and hyping fights. He's usually a class act after and you don't hear excuses from him.

 

Here's what Renzo Gracie said about him after their phonecall before the fight

 

"You have to understand, he is one of the most humble guys I've ever seen. He understood, agreed and completely changed. It's very easy to get lost when you start talking trash. It's very easy to get lost of the real focus. So, in reality, I didn

[Dead Mike]

I remember the BJ/GSP incident but not what came of it, if anything?

Shit loads came of it, all of which goes against your ridiculous argument that guys can come into fights, "soaking wet or oiled up."

 

Both the UFC and the Nevada State Athletic Commision changed their rules to crack down on greasing. First Keith Kizer went on record as saying that, "any amount (of vaseline) on the body is excessive in mixed martial arts." Then Nevada amended their rules so that it was considered illegal to be, "applying any foreign substance to the hair, body, clothing or gloves immediately prior to or during a contest or exhibition that could result in an unfair advantage."

 

Meanwhile,

and the UFC modified their rules so that corner men could no longer carry vaseline and only official, "cut men," could apply vaseline to the fighter's face.

 

Hardly, "tantamount to fuck all," is it?

 

Well I guess we'll find out wont we. After all, if it's such a horrendous crime within the sport I'm sure the Nevada Athletic commision & the UFC wont let such a blatant offence go unpunished & we'll all see Anderson pay for his actions. OR not much will come of it at all because in real terms it's tantamount to fuck all.

 

Let's see what happens?

[Supremo]

Yes. Let's see what happens. Hopefully something will come of it and it won't be a case of money ruling over logic and law. Regardless of whether it does or not though, let's also not make shit up in the midst of a discussion and talk about stuff with authority when you don't actually know the facts.

[chokeout]

I remember the BJ/GSP incident but not what came of it, if anything?

Shit loads came of it, all of which goes against your ridiculous argument that guys can come into fights, "soaking wet or oiled up."

 

Both the UFC and the Nevada State Athletic Commision changed their rules to crack down on greasing. First Keith Kizer went on record as saying that, "any amount (of vaseline) on the body is excessive in mixed martial arts." Then Nevada amended their rules so that it was considered illegal to be, "applying any foreign substance to the hair, body, clothing or gloves immediately prior to or during a contest or exhibition that could result in an unfair advantage."

 

Meanwhile,

and the UFC modified their rules so that corner men could no longer carry vaseline and only official, "cut men," could apply vaseline to the fighter's face.

 

Hardly, "tantamount to fuck all," is it?

 

I dont agree with what Silva did with the grease but surely the difference between the 2 is that GSP's corner intentionally rubbed grease into his back to give him an advantage between rounds, the vaseline that Silva was using was from the doc and was checked by the official outside the cage before he entered. If anyone argues about it they havent got a leg to stand on. Im pretty sure a lot of fighters do it a lot less blatently all the time

[Supremo]

 

Make Matt Serra an assistant coach to Chael too, just for added brilliance.

you think TUF could possibly go back to having coaches that don't actually fight at the end of it? i know the TUF format acts as a build up to a fight but with coaches dropping out recently (3 times now) maybe they could just go back to having two random coaches that just so happen to big big personalities like Serra/Sonnen?

I'd have no problem with them scrapping the concept of the coaches fighting at the end of the season. In fact, I'm sure in the majority of cases the fight between the coach usually falls through due to injury anyway, so I'd be fine with them bringing in the most entertaining or charismatic coaches rather than two guys who'll eventually fight. After last season's ratings it's exactly what's needed. However, regardless of what they do with the coaches the much bigger problem with The Ultimate Fighter is the fighters themselves.

 

One of the biggest problems in the UFC these days is the massive disconnect between the fighters casual fans know (usually chumps who'll go nowhere) and those that they don't (genuine title contenders like Hendricks and Ellenberger). Case in point: everyone knows who Cody Mckenzie is, yet even as someone who's a pretty hardcore fan I'd genuinely struggle to pick Chris Weidman out of a lineup. That's the problem. All these chumps are famous, yet the title contenders are nobodies to the casual audience. They need to sort that out.

 

In an attempt to fix this I'd either book another Comeback season, or even better, I'd book some type of Contenders season. Gather up the most talented guys in a particular division who aren't stars and do a season with them. Doing as much with Heavyweights is the very reason Roy Nelson is the most successful TUF winner in forever. I mean, look at the Featherweight and Bantamweight divisions. Bar the champions I don't think the casual fans could name hardly anyone. Ideally, although I doubt the logistics would ever allow this, I'd take the top five or ten out of those divisions and put them in the house. At least that way you make stars out of guys who can then go on to headline shows.

 

The UFC doesn't need another Jonathan Brookins or Tony Ferguson, that's for sure.

 

I dont agree with what Silva did with the grease but surely the difference between the 2 is that GSP's corner intentionally rubbed grease into his back to give him an advantage between rounds, the vaseline that Silva was using was from the doc and was checked by the official outside the cage before he entered. If anyone argues about it they havent got a leg to stand on. Im pretty sure a lot of fighters do it a lot less blatently all the time

If anything, it's actually worse in this instance. At least GSP could blame it on a stupid corner man. Silva on the other hand did it himself, right in front of a camera. There's no confusion, no excuse and no alibi. He made a calm, calculated decision to take vaseline placed on his face by an official, and put it on his body, to gain an illegal advantage. How people fail to understand this or attempt to justify it is absolutely mind-boggling. It couldn't be clearer. MMA is mental like this. No wonder guys like Overeem get away with the shit they do.

[jimufctna24]

I don't think your giving GSP's striking enough credit there Jim. Yes he didn't look that great against Shields, but I believe the eye issues were a big factor in that, he hasn't looked that uncomfortable on his feet for a long time.

You have a point, I may be being a bit harsh.

 

To be fair though, other than the Kos and Shields fights we have not seen his much if his striking for a while. I will say his jab was excellent against Kos, but Kos is a very basic striker who is very predictable.

 

Anderson could easily dodge or even take GSP jabs and counter with straights that would leave GSP on queer street. I guess we will never know until they fight, but it would be a very interesting match up.

 

For what it is worth I used to believe GSP could beat Anderson, but ANderson has shown shown heart and comeback from behind so much the past few years, I cannot see anyone beating him for a while.

[chokeout]

I dont agree with what Silva did with the grease but surely the difference between the 2 is that GSP's corner intentionally rubbed grease into his back to give him an advantage between rounds, the vaseline that Silva was using was from the doc and was checked by the official outside the cage before he entered. If anyone argues about it they havent got a leg to stand on. Im pretty sure a lot of fighters do it a lot less blatently all the time

If anything, it's actually worse in this instance. At least GSP could blame it on a stupid corner man. Silva on the other hand did it himself, right in front of a camera. There's no confusion, no excuse and no alibi. He made a calm, calculated decision to take vaseline placed on his face by an official, and put it on his body, to gain an illegal advantage. How people fail to understand this or attempt to justify it is absolutely mind-boggling. It couldn't be clearer. MMA is mental like this. No wonder guys like Overeem get away with the shit they do.

 

I dont think anyone is trying to justify it it was a blatent attempt to gain an advantage. However the vaseline on him is legal so im not sure you could even claim it was technically an illegal advantage. If he rubs it across his forehead is that ok or is it classed as greasing his head? The ref can decide to wipe down any excess grease and he saw Silva was taking the piss. Even if the ref hadnt had wiped him off I doubt theres anything they could do about it after the fact

[Supremo]

I dont think anyone is trying to justify it it was a blatent attempt to gain an advantage. However the vaseline on him is legal so im not sure you could even claim it was technically an illegal advantage. If he rubs it across his forehead is that ok or is it classed as greasing his head? The ref can decide to wipe down any excess grease and he saw Silva was taking the piss. Even if the ref hadnt had wiped him off I doubt theres anything they could do about it after the fact

You're not supposed to touch the fucking vaseline! It's on your face to protect your face from cuts. It's legal because it's on your face. It's not legal if you then remove it and put it elsewhere to gain an illegal advantage. That's why the ref wiped him down.