Paid Members tiger_rick Posted December 28, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted December 28, 2011 I don't think Punk alienates anyone, I just don't think he (or anyone else not named Cena) will draw anyone in who wouldn't watch anyway. It's been obvious for the past few years that the number of genuine draws was diminishing and they've never managed to make more. You have to use hot stars to make new stars. They'll seriously struggle to do it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I don't think Punk alienates anyone, I just don't think he (or anyone else not named Cena) will draw anyone in who wouldn't watch anyway. It's been obvious for the past few years that the number of genuine draws was diminishing and they've never managed to make more. You have to use hot stars to make new stars. They'll seriously struggle to do it now. Â Â Does Cena draw in new fans though? Â Buyrates and ratings have slowly been slipping for the last few years now, a time where he's clearly positioned as number one. Don't get me wrong, he is clearly a draw for current fans, as his segments on RAW show, but I'd be genuinely interested to see what would happen if he had to take a year off TV. It might open things right up, like when Austin went for neck surgery and missed a year. Â One of the few PPVs of the last few years to not have a Cena match advertised (as he was supposed to be out after neck surgery) was the 2008 Royal Rumble (where the git turned up anyway). That PPV did the best non-wrestlemania buyrate of any WWE PPV since about 2006 (where that year's Rumble did slightly more). The 2008 Rumble did 533 thousand buys, better than anything except Mania in the previous 2 years and better than every (non mania) PPV since. That was all based on a show advertised as having no John Cena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members CleetusVanDamme Posted December 28, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted December 28, 2011 He already brought in a fuckload of new fans during his first couple of year run on top, that rescued WWE's business in nearly every category. Without those fans WWE would be fucked right now. Â Â And it's hard to tell if he's still bringing in new viewers, but I'd wager that a child tuning in for the first time is far more likely to cling onto the noble superhero who sticks up for his fans, rather than the guy who makes references to things that happened 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Fox Piss Posted December 28, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Cena brings in the new ones. Punk keeps the old ones. Â Problem lies with other performers in my book. I'm not saying the performer themselves but between them and the creative you got to be getting more from the fans. Â ADR is getting a easy ride from people at the minute. Guy is really good in the ring but overall he character is serious below par. Edited December 28, 2011 by Fox Piss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) He already brought in a fuckload of new fans during his first couple of year run on top, that rescued WWE's business in nearly every category. Without those fans WWE would be fucked right now.  And it's hard to tell if he's still bringing in new viewers, but I'd wager that a child tuning in for the first time is far more likely to cling onto the noble superhero who sticks up for his fans, rather than the guy who makes references to things that happened 20 years ago.   He certainly brought in new fans earlier on, no doubt, but he's been in the position where he's been pretty stale for a very long time now. I'm sure Hogan brought fans to WCW in 1994 but by 1996 they still needed to freshen him up, big time. Cena's time at the top has also been during a period where WWE has expanded globally on a huge scale, I think that has been a huge factor in them turning big profits while the TV and PPV business has dwindled. Cena was also sharing his time on top (earlier on) with big stars like Triple H (when he was full-time), Michaels and Batista.  Punk making the occasional smark remark isn't really going to do anything to turn fans off, I think that's a big exaggeration. It's not like he's been spending 10 minute promos talking about The Master Blasters or The Dynamic Dudes while the whole audience sits there looking confused, it's just the occasional little remark here and there. Edited December 28, 2011 by Dirty Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhenom Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Does Cena draw in new fans though? Buyrates and ratings have slowly been slipping for the last few years now, a time where he's clearly positioned as number one. Don't get me wrong, he is clearly a draw for current fans, as his segments on RAW show, but I'd be genuinely interested to see what would happen if he had to take a year off TV. It might open things right up, like when Austin went for neck surgery and missed a year.  One of the few PPVs of the last few years to not have a Cena match advertised (as he was supposed to be out after neck surgery) was the 2008 Royal Rumble (where the git turned up anyway). That PPV did the best non-wrestlemania buyrate of any WWE PPV since about 2006 (where that year's Rumble did slightly more). The 2008 Rumble did 533 thousand buys, better than anything except Mania in the previous 2 years and better than every (non mania) PPV since. That was all based on a show advertised as having no John Cena. That might be for the big Jeff Hardy push, he had the WWE Title shot against Randy Orton. He was the big babyface star that the company needed at the time of Cena's injury, and I feel that he is the star they need now if he is all clean (I don't watch TNA at the moment, so I have no idea what he's been like since the Victory Road incident). During that original Hardy main event push, he's face was put on the poster/advertisement for No Way Out 2008 and it was the highest bought B PPV in almost two years. That number hasn't even come to close to being matched for a smaller PPV since. Edited December 28, 2011 by ThePhenom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted December 28, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted December 28, 2011 Does Cena draw in new fans though? I think he can. When anything interesting is going on with Cena, things heat up, ratings wise. No-one else seems to have much effect on anything. Except Mark Henry of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapnut Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Are people forgetting Cena's comments about Isaac Yankem, the Christmas Creature and his numerous skateboarding references or whatever? It's not just Punk. Edited December 28, 2011 by Slapnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Are people forgetting about Cena's comments about Isaac Yankem, the Christmas Creature and his numerous skateboarding references or whatever? It's not just Punk. Â Yeah but there is no point in bringing any of that up if your only agenda is bashing CM Punk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) It's all just part of the anti-Punk agenda. The SummerSlam buyrate, the TV ratings for Punk's segments, the security guards at MSG, the baseball commentators, it's all part of the same conspiracy. Edited December 28, 2011 by King Pitcos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ron Simmons Posted December 28, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) It's all just part of the anti-Punk agenda. The SummerSlam buyrate, the TV ratings for Punk's segments, the security guards at MSG, the baseball commentators, it's all part of the same conspiracy. Not pointing to this as being "your opinion" as such - but have the ratings been consistently low for Punk though? Genuinely don't know the answer to this - but it seems harsh for some people to be judging him on the holiday show rating, for what was a match that didn't really progress storylines. Edited December 28, 2011 by Ron Simmons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapnut Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 WWE officials held a meeting last week after the RAW ratings came in where Michael Cole's commentary was discussed according to F4Wonline.com TV ratings patterns show fans have little interest in seeing anyone on TV besides the top Superstars. Consideration was given to maybe that's because of Cole burying the talents for the past year.  I wouldn't say it's completely down to Cole's commentary, but fucking hell, it's about time they noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 WWE officials held a meeting last week after the RAW ratings came in where Michael Cole's commentary was discussed according to F4Wonline.com TV ratings patterns show fans have little interest in seeing anyone on TV besides the top Superstars. Consideration was given to maybe that's because of Cole burying the talents for the past year.  I wouldn't say it's completely down to Cole's commentary, but fucking hell, it's about time they noticed.    If this is true, then I love how theyre only just coming round to the idea that burying the talent on air, even if its a heel doing it, might not be the best idea if you want those guys to mean something to the audience.  I do sometimes wonder how WWE has ever been as successful as it has, I really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WWFChilli Posted December 29, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted December 29, 2011 WWE officials held a meeting last week after the RAW ratings came in where Michael Cole's commentary was discussed according to F4Wonline.com TV ratings patterns show fans have little interest in seeing anyone on TV besides the top Superstars. Consideration was given to maybe that's because of Cole burying the talents for the past year.  I wouldn't say it's completely down to Cole's commentary, but fucking hell, it's about time they noticed.    If this is true, then I love how theyre only just coming round to the idea that burying the talent on air, even if its a heel doing it, might not be the best idea if you want those guys to mean something to the audience.  I do sometimes wonder how WWE has ever been as successful as it has, I really do.  Cole has been both a good thing and a bad thing. The good aspects of Cole as a heel is sometimes he can be terrific in his heel antics on the announce table. WWE needed a heel announcer after JBL fucked off. Cole has been great in that role. His feud with Lawler until it all went to shit at Wrestlemania was great. Cole was such a complete bastard in the hype for that match and it was brilliant, it was almost Bobby Heenan manager/announcer levels of sneaky prick behavior.  Let's use Heenan as a comparison for his bad points. Bobby Heenan would do a fantastic job on the announce table ripping wrestlers apart but knowing the limit before burying them. I am not a Daniel Bryan fan boy but Bryan is a prime example. At points you just get put off by Cole's burying of Bryan. Not when he is criticizing in the match, that is the heels job. But when Bryan is cutting a promo and among sentences Cole will snipe in with something and that for me ruins it for the viewer. You want to see and hear the promo and not have Cole constantly making small remarks, it's fine in matches but in promos it's a real annoyance.  This isn't really Cole's fault as he's just doing a job but still, he buries beyond burying at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Total Package Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 If I was WWE, I'd throw a ton of money at Batista and have him come back as the character he was during his last run. He's exactly what WWE miss. Â Stuff like this is only a short term answer, its never really worked, WWE have been doing it for years now, Jericho, Batista *insert fav old wrester* etc comeback, they hang around for 6-8months and then do one, and WWE is back to being no better off. Â I think it was you or somebody else saying even The Rock has lost some of his spark since he cameback, and its true, whether you have out grown his act or just dont like him anymore that spark has faded for me, WWE never built on it, just like when Bret cameback and they fucked that up too, whatever people think of The Rock they're not many names after him that can come in and add a shit load of extra buys. Â I don't think Punk alienates anyone, I just don't think he (or anyone else not named Cena) will draw anyone in who wouldn't watch anyway. It's been obvious for the past few years that the number of genuine draws was diminishing and they've never managed to make more. You have to use hot stars to make new stars. They'll seriously struggle to do it now. Â I agree with stars making stars, I think that's why someone like The Miz has kind of found himself in limbo, saying that they did do a good job with Henry by using Show/Kane/Orton, but yeah its only going to get harder each year. Â It is very hard to see at this point anyone being over on the same level as Cena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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