UFC 141:Lesnar vs Overeem Discussion Thread

[darepool]

Rey Piste didn't realise that testosterone is a form of steroid..He also wasn't aware of what Chael Sonnen was actually suspended for yet had an opinion on it

.I don't think he's the most sensible of guys

 

Despite having not fought in the UFC he is IN the UFC and has world class striking that has been proven throughout the years, topped off with his K-1 World Grand Prix win. Even CroCop who had alot of success in K-1 was never able to win a tournament.

 

I feel personally that Brock Lesnar can take a punch but his natural instinct is to curl up into a ball and try and recover. He's not a natural striker and isn't happy taking a punch and trying to adjust his feet to slip or parry, he'd rather just stiffen up or turn.

[jimufctna24]

has overeem ever fought any strong wrestlers?

No

 

Best wrestler he ever faced was Chuck Liddel, who did not use takedowns in his game very often. He fought some ok wrestlers like Belfort and Lil Nog but no one like Lesnar.

 

People bang on about how much experiance Overeem has, but he has never even faced a Couture or a Coleman in his 205lbs days lets alone a Heavyweight wrestler with NCAA credentials.

 

I am not saying Overeem is going to get mauled but people are putting too much stock into him going into Friday. I also firmly believe JDS would beat Overeem at MMA at this time, I may change my mind if Overeem lives up to his hype on Friday but as of right now judging on his lethargic performance against Werdum which he actually did not completly dominate the stand up aspect, I think Overeem is heading into Friday with a 50/50 chance.

 

EDIT: On K1 transition to MMA, some fighters like Cro Cop had a striking style that worked in MMA, whilst others like Peter Aerts and Ernesto Hoost did not transition as it was stongly believed that there style would not work in MMA effectively in ways like defending takedowns.

 

Overeem cannot be the master striker against Werdum and Lesnar he was in K1 as it may leave openings for takedowns, another reason why Overeem is getting a bit too much confidence thrust upon him.

[darepool]

has overeem ever fought any strong wrestlers?

No

 

Best wrestler he ever faced was Chuck Liddel, who did not use takedowns in his game very often. He fought some ok wrestlers like Belfort and Lil Nog but no one like Lesnar.

 

People bang on about how much experiance Overeem has, but he has never even faced a Couture or a Coleman in his 205lbs days lets alone a Heavyweight wrestler with NCAA credentials.

 

I am not saying Overeem is going to get mauled but people are putting too much stock into him going into Friday. I also firmly believe JDS would beat Overeem at MMA at this time, I may change my mind if Overeem lives up to his hype on Friday but as of right now judging on his lethargic performance against Werdum which he actually did not completly dominate the stand up aspect, I think Overeem is heading into Friday with a 50/50 chance.

 

EDIT: On K1 transition to MMA, some fighters like Cro Cop had a striking style that worked in MMA, whilst others like Peter Aerts and Ernesto Hoost did not transition as it was stongly believed that there style would not work in MMA effectively in ways like defending takedowns.

 

Overeem cannot be the master striker against Werdum and Lesnar he was in K1 as it may leave openings for takedowns, another reason why Overeem is getting a bit too much confidence thrust upon him.

I think Overeem completely threw Overeem off his gameplan in that fight, I don't think he expected Werdum to spend 50% of the fight on his arse begging Alistair to come into his guard.

I think it's going to be veeeeeeeery close. I do feel Brock will be able to take Alistair down. However comparing Alistair Overeem from LHW in Pride to the growth hormone beast of today isn't really fair. My one fear for Overeem is the moving of his training camp back home to be closer to his mother, I feel he may not be giving this fight his full attention.

 

His K-1 credentials should REALLY be taken into heavy consideration, he is very powerful in that clinch and should hopefully be able to use this to get him out of against the fence situations.

[jimufctna24]

has overeem ever fought any strong wrestlers?

No

 

Best wrestler he ever faced was Chuck Liddel, who did not use takedowns in his game very often. He fought some ok wrestlers like Belfort and Lil Nog but no one like Lesnar.

 

People bang on about how much experiance Overeem has, but he has never even faced a Couture or a Coleman in his 205lbs days lets alone a Heavyweight wrestler with NCAA credentials.

 

I am not saying Overeem is going to get mauled but people are putting too much stock into him going into Friday. I also firmly believe JDS would beat Overeem at MMA at this time, I may change my mind if Overeem lives up to his hype on Friday but as of right now judging on his lethargic performance against Werdum which he actually did not completly dominate the stand up aspect, I think Overeem is heading into Friday with a 50/50 chance.

 

EDIT: On K1 transition to MMA, some fighters like Cro Cop had a striking style that worked in MMA, whilst others like Peter Aerts and Ernesto Hoost did not transition as it was stongly believed that there style would not work in MMA effectively in ways like defending takedowns.

 

Overeem cannot be the master striker against Werdum and Lesnar he was in K1 as it may leave openings for takedowns, another reason why Overeem is getting a bit too much confidence thrust upon him.

I think Overeem completely threw Overeem off his gameplan in that game, I don't think he expected Werdum to spend 50% of the fight on his arse begging Alistair to come into his guard.

I think it's going to be veeeeeeeery close. I do feel Brock will be able to take Alistair down. However comparing Alistair Overeem from LHW in Pride to the growth hormone beast isn't really fair. My one fear for Overeem is the moving of his training camp back home to be closer to his mother, I feel he may not be giving this fight his full attention.

I can agree on that.

 

However we can speculate on what we know from him so far and so far in MMA he is untested against wrestlers.

 

The points you make about Werdum are correct, but it also falls into my point of his striking style not being as effective once grapplers play their game against him. Werdum actually landed shots against Overeem, none that hurt him but still landed and Overeem could not TKO him, Werdum is not a very good striker he is average in my opinion not that Lesnar is any better mind. Lesnar is more powerful but Werdum is better technically.

 

I do not think Overeem can play around with Lesnar for a long time otherwise sooner or later he will end up on his back and may not get back up. The question is wheather Overeem can stop Lesnars takedowns and wheather his blitz will be effective enough to take him out whilst not leaving openings. If Overeem blitzs and Lesnar turtles up I will not be shocked though.

 

EDIT: I also agree his K1 credentials should not be taken lightly, some like Hunt and Cro Cop have styles of striking in K1 that they used well in MMA. Others like Aerts do not. But I stand by my point that Overeem against Werdum was neutralised when he was forced to play a grapplers game, his style of striking was not as effective in MMA as it was in K1 on that night.

[darepool]

has overeem ever fought any strong wrestlers?

No

 

Best wrestler he ever faced was Chuck Liddel, who did not use takedowns in his game very often. He fought some ok wrestlers like Belfort and Lil Nog but no one like Lesnar.

 

People bang on about how much experiance Overeem has, but he has never even faced a Couture or a Coleman in his 205lbs days lets alone a Heavyweight wrestler with NCAA credentials.

 

I am not saying Overeem is going to get mauled but people are putting too much stock into him going into Friday. I also firmly believe JDS would beat Overeem at MMA at this time, I may change my mind if Overeem lives up to his hype on Friday but as of right now judging on his lethargic performance against Werdum which he actually did not completly dominate the stand up aspect, I think Overeem is heading into Friday with a 50/50 chance.

 

EDIT: On K1 transition to MMA, some fighters like Cro Cop had a striking style that worked in MMA, whilst others like Peter Aerts and Ernesto Hoost did not transition as it was stongly believed that there style would not work in MMA effectively in ways like defending takedowns.

 

Overeem cannot be the master striker against Werdum and Lesnar he was in K1 as it may leave openings for takedowns, another reason why Overeem is getting a bit too much confidence thrust upon him.

I think Overeem completely threw Overeem off his gameplan in that game, I don't think he expected Werdum to spend 50% of the fight on his arse begging Alistair to come into his guard.

I think it's going to be veeeeeeeery close. I do feel Brock will be able to take Alistair down. However comparing Alistair Overeem from LHW in Pride to the growth hormone beast isn't really fair. My one fear for Overeem is the moving of his training camp back home to be closer to his mother, I feel he may not be giving this fight his full attention.

I can agree on that.

 

However we can speculate on what we know from him so far and so far in MMA he is untested against wrestlers.

 

The points you make about Werdum are correct, but it also falls into my point of his striking style not being as effective once grapplers play their game against him. Werdum actually landed shots against Overeem, none that hurt him but still landed and Overeem could not TKO him, Werdum is not a very good striker he is average in my opinion not that Lesnar is any better mind. Lesnar is more powerful but Werdum is better technically.

 

I do not think Overeem can play around with Lesnar for a long time otherwise sooner or later he will end up on his back and may not get back up. The question is wheather Overeem can stop Lesnars takedowns and wheather his blitz will be effective enough to take him out whilst not leaving openings. If Overeem blitzs and Lesnar turtles up I will not be shocked though.

 

EDIT: I also agree his K1 credentials should not be taken lightly, some like Hunt and Cro Cop have styles of striking in K1 that they used well in MMA. Others like Aerts do not. But I stand by my point that Overeem against Werdum was neutralised when he was forced to play a grapplers game, his style of striking was not as effective in MMA as it was in K1 on that night.

 

I agree it's a very hard one to predict!

I am leaning towards Overeem though. It's a shame he's been untested in MMA against any really top level competition outwith Werdum. The problem with Werdum was he wasn't trying to sweep him down he was constantly trying to pull guard. Whereas with Brock he know's Brock is going to be throwing straight punches and trying to put him on his back.

[the_mole]

Ariel Helwani interviews are up with Brock & Overeem

can't seem to link them but there over at mmafighting.com

 

Here's the full countdown show though

 

Brock-Overeem segment

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUpTEtaJVOk...9C9&lf=plcp

 

and Nate-Cowboy

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rhOzViS3AQ...9C9&lf=plcp

 

officially pumped for this show

[Rey_Piste]

Rey Piste didn't realise that testosterone is a form of steroid..He also wasn't aware of what Chael Sonnen was actually suspended for yet had an opinion on it

.I don't think he's the most sensible

Testosterone is not a form of steroid, steroids are an artificial form of testosterone. Sonnen was suspended for using testosterone replacement therapy which is actually allowed. Hendo is doing that shit, Sonnen never declared he was doing it before the test results.

[Rey_Piste]

I think Overeem completely threw Overeem off his gameplan in that fight.

So when did Alistair fight himself and was it under K-1 or unified MMA rules?

[Egg Shen]

Brock got weirdly agitated towards the end of his Helwani interview when questioned about being an underdog, what was all that about?

[Egg Shen]

I actually think that Brock's reaction to getting hit will be even worse now, because he's not exactly reacted well to getting hit and now he's fighting the best striker in the heavyweight division, it doesn't bode well.

 

again, Overeem by destruction!

Again you said he's the best Striker in the division, which is A: factually wrong and B: really stupid.

The best striker in the division is Junior Dos Santos, a great technical boxer. It's a stupid statement because he hasn't fought in the division yet. You have to go on how guys do in the UFC. If you go on past glories then the best current heavyweight is Cro Cop, when you go to the actual records of him in UFC then you know that's a different story.

there's an argument to be made for JDS, but i don't think it's a stretch to not consider the K-1 Grand Prix Champion the best striker in the division...oh, and by division, i aint talking UFC, im talking Heavyweights in general.

[Rey_Piste]

Then the words you're looking for is weight class. Division sort of implies just UFC.

[wandshogun09]

fair play, but Overeem's the better striker in my opinion

 

Yeah I don't think JDS' style of boxing would work as well in pro boxing for the reasons you gave, mainly cos he does leave himself open. But it works well in MMA when you take into account having to defend takedowns and kicks. He does that very well.

 

In a straight striking match I'd say Overeem is better than JDS. He has more tools with his knees and kicks whereas JDS relies on his hands. But JDS has better hands imo, and a better chin. Would be a good fight.

[wandshogun09]

I think Overeem is gonna come in way overconfident and get dumped on his ass, smothered and roughed up, I see a Lesnar TKO from ground and pound in the third.

Despite what people say about Brock dealing with punches, he has eaten them from some big hitters in Cain and Carwin. I'm not saying that either is a more accomplished striker than Overeem, but they did/do have more weapons to their games (Wrestling) for Brock to be thinking about.

 

Lesnar smash.

 

Exactly how I see it.

 

I actually think Overeem being such a decorated striker will mean Brock doesn't fuck about on the feet and sticks to wrestling. He got smashed against Cain but the difference there was he had to stand with him cos he couldn't outwrestle him, That was why he panicked there I think. He was trying sloppy flying knees and all sorts in desperation. Different ball game here imo because he should be able to take Reem down or at least tie him up.

[David]

Brock got weirdly agitated towards the end of his Helwani interview when questioned about being an underdog, what was all that about?

He probably considers himself the favourite, seeing as he's beaten the likes of Randy Couture, Frank Mir & Shane Carwin over the past few years whilst Overeem has beaten the likes of Fabricio Werdum, Todd Duffee, Brett Rogers & James Thompson.

 

Oh, and Lesnar has held the UFC heavyweight strap.

 

As far as the fight goes, it's probably one of the easiest to predict. If Lesnar takes Overeem down before Overeem can catch him with a good shot, it's pretty much game over. If Overeem catches him with a good shot before Brock can land the takedown then Overeem probably stops him.

 

Either way I don't see it going longer than the first frame.

[Kiffy]

As far as the fight goes, it's probably one of the easiest to predict. If Lesnar takes Overeem down before Overeem can catch him with a good shot, it's pretty much game over. If Overeem catches him with a good shot before Brock can land the takedown then Overeem probably stops him.

 

Either way I don't see it going longer than the first frame.

 

Surely the easy to predict bit would only work if you knew which one of those would happen?