UFC 141:Lesnar vs Overeem Discussion Thread

[David]

I know this event is still a while away, but I thought that with Lesnar facing the legit #2 heavyweight in MMA, and it being the new years eve show which is always a big deal, that it was worthy of an early thread.

 

The card as it stands looks like this;

 

Brock Lesnar vs Alistair Overeem

Jon Fitch vs Johny Hendricks

Diego Sanchez vs Jake Ellenberger

Alexander Gustafsson vs Vladimir Matyushenko

 

The main event is a bout that I personally can't wait to see. The UFC consider it a #1 contenders match to the UFC title, and it really is when you look at it. Overeem is the legit #1 heavyweight fighter outside of the UFC at present, and Lesnar is the #3 heavyweight fighter in the UFC. A fight between the winner and the UFC champion sets up possibly the best UFC heavyweight title fight we've ever seen, and will finally see the crowning of a legitimate #1 heavyweight for possibly the first time since the days of PRIDE.

 

It's going to be fucking epic.

 

Alistair Overeem is officially a UFC heavyweight and will meet Brock Lesnar on Dec. 30.

 

UFC co-owner Lorenzo Fertitta confirmed the news to ESPN.com Tuesday, after an initial report by the Los Angeles Times. The five-round, non-title fight will headline an unannounced UFC event at the MGM Grand Garden Arena.

 

"It's a long-term deal exclusive to the UFC," Fertitta said. "Alistair is known to bounce around in K-1, Dream and Strikeforce, but he's now exclusively signed to the UFC.

 

"At the end of the day, he's one of the best in the world. Now we get to see how he matches up against (UFC) guys. We have a tremendous heavyweight division and bringing him along makes it stronger."

 

Overeem (35-11), who has held belts in multiple promotions, was released from Strikeforce in July despite having one fight remaining on his contract. At that time, he entered an exclusive negotiating period with Zuffa, parent company of Strikeforce and the UFC.

 

During negotiations, the UFC offered an immediate title fight against the winner of a Nov. 12 matchup between Cain Velasquez and Junior Dos Santos. Overeem ultimately turned down the opportunity in favor of fighting again in 2011.

 

"I'm a fighter who wants to fight a lot," Overeem said. "If I had to wait for a title fight, I'd basically be waiting until next year. They came up with this option and I wanted it.

 

"I'm very excited to fight Brock. He's a big guy. We have different styles. I think it's going to be very exciting for fans."

 

Lesnar (5-2) has been out of action since a first-round TKO loss to Velasquez last October due to a second bout with diverticulitis, an intestinal disorder.

 

Several reports surfaced earlier this month indicating Lesnar's medical problems were forcing him toward retirement. UFC president Dana White dismissed those claims as "ridiculous" during a national media call on Sept. 2.

 

With Lesnar set to return to the Octagon and Overeem not wanting to wait on the title fight, Fertitta said pairing the two became an easy call.

 

"We wanted him to fight for the heavyweight championship but it didn't work out with that fight happening on Nov. 12," Fertitta said. "He didn't want to wait around. To his credit, he wants to fight the best. Brock is a huge name guy."

 

Overeem's long-term deal could be a good sign for his Golden Glory teammates.

 

When the heavyweight was released, several of his stable mates were dismissed as well, most notably former women's 135-pound Strikeforce champion Marloes Coenen. Coenen has since signed with North Carolina-based BlackEye Promotions.

 

White cited a disagreement in business practices as the cause for cutting the Golden Glory fighters. On the heels of Overeem's deal, however, Fertitta described Zuffa's relationship with Golden Glory as "perfect," and added talks regarding other fighters would soon take place.

 

"That was a dispute but I'm sure talks are going on with them now as well," Overeem said. "It will be resolved."

[wandshogun09]

Can't wait for this. I've gone with Lesnar by TKO but I'll probably go back and forth on the result a few times between now and December.

 

Obviously Brock's stand up is total cack and Overeem's is some of the best in MMA, I'm seeing loads of people predicting Overeem by first round demolition based off that. I'm not so sure. Brock's not gonna stand with Overeem, he'll have Overeem on his back quicker than Sable. Overeem's takedown defence is good but it's not Brock proof and I doubt he'll be able to get up from under Brock like Cain did.

 

Another thing to take into account is this will be a 5 round fight (doubt it will go that long) and Overeem's cardio is shite. He was gassed against Werdum and not a lot happened, imagine how much he'll be sucking wind after a round of Brock smothering him?

 

I'm thinking Brock will take him down early, smother him, ground and pound similar to the way he beat Mir at UFC 100. Overeem will likely gas and Brock will finish him in round 2 or 3.

 

I'm saying this but Overeem's striking is so vicious if he catches Brock clean with anything it could be lights out at any time, which is what makes the fight a must see. Overeem could catch Brock with a big knee shooting in and game over. I'll stick with my prediction of Brock by TKO though.

[David]

I can't see Lesnar being able to cope with the striking of Overeem, although I hope I'm wrong. I think another bad loss for Brock will see him disappear from the sport, which no one really wants to happen.

[Bus Surfer]

My initial reaction to this is Overeem TKO early on, but then my mind goes back to Overeem/Werdum and how reluctant Reem was with his striking because he feared being pulled to guard. If Brock can get it to the floor quickly and starve Overeem early on then I think he can take it. If Reem lands something early Brock could lose his shit and start dancing again.

 

Whoever gets off first wins IMO. Can't wait.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah in a striking match obviously Brock is Overeem's bitch all day.

 

Difference is Brock's not gonna have to cope with Overeem's striking, he will in all likelihood be able to take Overeem down at will. On the other hand, Overeem will have to cope with Brock's wrestling and I really don't think he can.

 

When a fresh Brock took down Cain at the start of their fight and Cain got out from under him and took him down, Brock broke mentally, he knew he was fucked, the fight was done there and then imo. I don't see Overeem being able to get out from under Brock and with every minute he's under Brock, Overeem's dodgy gas tank will get emptier.

 

Overeem gonna have to try and land a big bomb in the first seconds of each round. If he comes in gunshy like he did vs Werdum he's fucked. He's in for a rough night I reckon.

[David]

It's worth remembering that Overeem is also a big fucking guy, he's around the 260-275lbs mark these days, and has fought almost 50 MMA fights over the past twelve years, so he's faced many different types of opponents, including wrestlers.

 

He'll come into this fight ready for whatever Lesnar throws at him, and with a gameplan in place. It's going to be awesome!

[Egg Shen]

too many people are looking at this thinking that Overeem's going to be afraid of going to the ground with Lesnar based on the Werdum fight. That fight was weird in that Werdum basically begged Overeem to goto ground with him, it was a horrible clash of styles and you can't really blame Overeem for what happened.

 

Lesnar's all out aggression means this is going to be a whole different beast, Lesnar isn't going to drop to his back and ask Overeem to goto guard with him, he's going to go forward and try shoot on Alistair. If Lesnar has learnt to control his emotions he might do ok, but he's shown previously that he panics in there, he'll get sloppy and Overeem is going to level him. I'm predicting a first round Overeem knockout.

 

That said, if this goes beyond a round or two it's going to be a different ball game. Overeem's biggest weakness in MMA has always been his cardio, he's pretty much schooled everyone he's ever fought until he's gassed. People thought he'd sorted that shit out since he started competeing K-1 but against Overeem he showed that wasn't the case.

 

Overeem KO round 1 is what i'd put my money on though.

[David]

Another bout added to the card for New Year;

 

A light heavyweight matchup originally expected to take place at this past August's UFC 133 event will now take place at UFC 141, as Alexander Gustafsson meets Vladimir Matyushenko.

 

UFC officials on Wednesday evening announced the matchup.

 

Featuring a heavyweight headliner between former UFC champion Brock Lesnar and former Strikeforce titleholder Alistair Overeem, UFC 141 takes place Dec. 30 at Las Vegas' MGM Grand Garden Arena.

 

It's currently unclear if the bout will feature on the evening's pay-per-view main card.

 

Gustafsson returns to action for the first time since TKOing Matt Hamill into retirement when "The Hammer" stepped in for an injured Matyushenko at UFC 133. Prior to that win, the 24-year-old Swedish prospect posted back-to-back submission victories (over Cyrille Diabate and James Te Huna). His lone career loss came to unbeaten contender Phil Davis at UFC 112, which followed a KO win over Jared Hamann in his late-2009 octagon debut.

 

Meanwhile, Matyushenko looks to build on the strength of an impressive victory notched earlier this year. "The Janitor" needed just 20 seconds to drop Jason Brilz at April's UFC 129 event, a result that lasted just four seconds more than a 1998 win over the infamous Anthony Macias. With a 4-1 in mark in his current UFC stint, Matyushenko has won five of his past six overall outings.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

I'm thinking Lesnar will be strategising for this fight, I can't see him bull-rushing Overeem in quite the same way he did Velasquez. I'm thinking he'll enter with a game plan similar to the Herring fight, just taking him down and controlling him, a safe path to a title shot. After his last two fights, he needs a confidence builder. I want to be excited for Lesnar's return fight and get into the hype, but I actually think it'll be a boring fight out of neccessity. However, I'd shit my pants if Lesnar won by 1st round KO.

[KingOfMetal]

I can see Brock going about this fight going one of two ways. He'll either:

1) try and take Overeem down and hod him down with his wrestling for 25 minutes (I believe this is going to be a 5 round fight)

2) he's going to come out swinging like a motherfucker

 

And to be honest, I don't fancy his chances with either approach. If Brock does get Overeem down, is he going to be able to finish him on the ground? I know Lesnar submitted Carwin, but Carwin was completely shagged when he came out for that second round. Overeem surely has better cardio and was an ADCC European Champion, so I reckon Brock's going to find it hard going on the ground.

[David]

I found it interesting listening to Bas Rutten on the MMA Hour on Monday saying that he doesn't actually think that Lesnar is that good an MMA wrestler. There's this grand misconception that Brock is some sort of awesome wrestler, when it's not really the case.

 

I remember having this very discussion with a few people in the Lesnar vs Velasquez thread, when his amateur record was brought up and so forth, and I still stick by my opinion that I had back then.

 

If Lesnar gets it to the ground then obviously he'll have evened up the fight somewhat, but it's by no means a foregone conclusion that a Lesnar takedown means he's winning the fight. Comparisons with the Carwin fight are laughable really, as Carwin has displayed no real submission ability, whilst Overeem has competed (and won) at ADCC level.

 

If it stays standing, Lesnar gets hurt in a big way, it's as simple as that. He had problems with Carwin, "pillowhands" Velasquez and even Couture on the feet. A striker as accurate and powerful as Overeem will kill him standing.

[Egg Shen]

I agree with David.

[David]

I agree with David.

Watch Lesnar dismantle Overeem on the feet now, before KO'ing him with a beautiful textbook uppercut!

[wandshogun09]

Haha K-1 Lesnar would be awesome

 

I dunno, I'm still thinking Lesnar wins this. I just don't see Overeem stopping his takedowns. I do agree that Brock's MMA wrestling probably isn't as good as it's made out to be. Some guys are excellent amateur wrestlers but can't make it work as effectively when they switch to MMA. Mark Munoz is z prime example of that aswell.

 

Overeem's best chance is obviously early on. After the first 2 rounds I think Lesnar has this fight all day. Whether Brock can survive the early rounds is another matter but I really think if Brock makes the first couple of rounds tough on Overeem's gastank then he'll finish him on the ground in round 2 or 3.

 

Overeem's grappling is underrated imo, but he's not better than Mir off his back and Brock battered Mir in his best area the second time they fought.

[wandshogun09]

too many people are looking at this thinking that Overeem's going to be afraid of going to the ground with Lesnar based on the Werdum fight. That fight was weird in that Werdum basically begged Overeem to goto ground with him, it was a horrible clash of styles and you can't really blame Overeem for what happened.

 

Lesnar's all out aggression means this is going to be a whole different beast, Lesnar isn't going to drop to his back and ask Overeem to goto guard with him, he's going to go forward and try shoot on Alistair. If Lesnar has learnt to control his emotions he might do ok, but he's shown previously that he panics in there, he'll get sloppy and Overeem is going to level him. I'm predicting a first round Overeem knockout.

 

That said, if this goes beyond a round or two it's going to be a different ball game. Overeem's biggest weakness in MMA has always been his cardio, he's pretty much schooled everyone he's ever fought until he's gassed. People thought he'd sorted that shit out since he started competeing K-1 but against Overeem he showed that wasn't the case.

 

Overeem KO round 1 is what i'd put my money on though.

 

Good points but I do think it's valid to think Overeem will be hesitant on the feet. Werdum didn't have the tools to get the fight to the ground and Overeem was very cautious, understandably he wanted to keep it standing.

 

I know Brock doesn't offer the submission threat Werdum does, nowhere near but Overeem must know it's much more likely Brock can take him down and no-one in MMA wants to be underneath Brock. Especially when you're cardio is shite.

 

I really think this is all gonna come down to how the fight starts. I think the outcome will be largely decided in the first couple of minutes. If Overeem can catch Brock early I can deffo see Brock panicking again and doing his Booker T impressions. If he fights smart and doesn't just run at Overeem like a mong I think he can wear Overeem down by making him carry his weight.

 

It's a fascinating fight because I can easily see either of them scenarios playing out and it's tough to guess what will happen. Can't wait.