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UFC 141:Lesnar vs Overeem Discussion Thread


David

  

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Brock is not an elite level striker. We all know that. I don't think anyone would ever pretend otherwise. But he smashed Heath Herring's face with one punch, mauled Frank Mir until his face looked like he'd been through a mincer, and boxed fairly comfortably with the quicker, more technically skilled Randy Couture. Is it at all possible for anyone to give a balanced, reasoned assessment of Lesnar's skills? I mean, he gets hurt by Carwin (who previously has KTFOd everyone he's faced in a matter of seconds) and people say he can't take a punch. The fuck? Then he gets caught behind the ear by Cain and stumbles badly off of it and suddenly his boxing defence is a joke, he's been totally exposed as a fraud and he doesn't know how to fight. Velasquez, the greatest heavyweight in the world, got creamed by Dos Santos with a very similar shot, having landed no offence whatsoever. Is anyone saying Velasquez is a joke? No they're not, despite him achieving far, far less in his last fight that Brock did in his.

 

I think I did give a balanced assessment of Lesnar's skills. I never said he's a fraud or can't fight, but he does need to improve on his weaknesses, which is his striking and striking defence. No different than saying Dan Hardy needs to work on his grappling, it's a fair criticism. Brock's grappling is top notch, great wrestling and from everything I've read his submission skills are really strong aswell. His striking offense isn't pretty but it is powerful and he can land a good straight right. And obviously his ground and pound is very dangerous.

 

But the fact is, his striking defence does need work no 2 ways about it. No-one's saying he can't take a punch, infact I think his chin seems pretty solid if anything. It just seems to be a mental thing with him where he panicks when he gets hit. That will improve with experience, the more he gets hit the more he'll adapt to it.

 

The Carwin fight he covered up well on the ground and avoided the stoppage, partly due to his toughness but I also think Carwin was too eager to finish and didn't pick his shots, he gassed himself out and he was in a worse way than Brock by round 2. Cain battered him. He was able to escape from under Brock, take Brock down himself, then on the feet he simply outsruck him. It wasn't a matter of one shot landing that fucked Brock up, he beat Brock everywhere the fight went. Came out on top in the wrestling, hurt him standing and finished him with strikes on the ground.

 

No shame in that but I think it's fair to say that Brock needs work on his stand up defence when his last 2 fights he was almost stopped in a 10-8 round and then finished with strikes inside a round.

 

I don't think people are knocking Lesnar for the sake of it, I think most on here want him to do well. Which is why people wanna see him improve the one area he's getting beat in. He's never gonna be K-1 level but if Brock can get his striking and defence to a higher level he'll be much harder to deal with. The fact he's had as much success as he has just off his grappling skills and his limited stand up makes you think, what could he do if he had all areas of MMA covered?

 

Brock almost certainly doesn't want a stand-up war with Overeem, which is why he's probably not stupid enough to engage in one. I expect he'll shoot early and smother him as much as possible for as long as possible. It probably won't be pretty, but if Velasquez can't stop Brock's shot then there is no fucking way Overeem can. Barring a flash KO early in a round, I just don't see how Overeem wins this.

 

This is exactly how I see it going. The course this fight will take will be clear in the first few minutes imo. There's always the chance of Overeem catching him early when he's most dangerous. If Brock is able to take him down and control him early on I think it will get worse for Overeem with every minute that passes and Brock will get the stoppage in round 2 or 3 with ground and pound.

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According to Kevin Iole, rumour is that Overeem is injured and out of the fight :( - the plus side, word going around is that Frank Mir may be the replacement.

 

 

Edit: Dana said at the UFC 140 post-fight press conference that it was BS.

 

UPDATE: In an update to the story, ESPN's Joss Gross has posted the following on Twitter, regarding the fight possibly being off
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Overeem is going to be given random testing at his own expense over a period of 6 months and they are going to grant him a conditional licence based on the test he has already submitted coming back clean. Hes a VERY lucky boyHes basically managed to blame his assistant for being shit and got away with skipping the country after being told he had to take a test. I wouldnt be surprised if the test he has already submitted comes back positive for horse meat. The NSAC thinking this was his first fight at heavyweight was laughable

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Yamasaki? I'd have thought John McCarthy or Herb Dean would have been given it.

 

I think any of them 3 would be fine, they're all perfectly capable refs. But for me, Josh Rosenthal's the man these days as far as reffing goes. Herb Dean's overrated in my opinion. He's made his share of cockups just like everyone else but Dana still claims he's the greatest ref in the history of everything.

 

Could be wrong but the biggest blunder I recall Rosenthal making was thinking the Shogun/Hendo fight was only 3 rounds.

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