steve rayson Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 here we go again, seconds out round 2Â Â Â No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaaaad! Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 For 'Seinfeld leaves' read 'steve concedes that he has no real argument to base his opinions on' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve rayson Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 For 'Seinfeld leaves' read 'steve concedes that he has no real argument to base his opinions on' Â Actually you are the one who didn't have a real argument to base your opinion with the money factor. I mean if one gimmick makes more money than another one what does it prove exactly in terms of quality (which from the looks of it is what Carbomb was talking about and clearly what i was talking about as well)? Paul Blart made $227 million in the box office yet Fight Club only made $101 million, I guess by your logic this might mean Blart is much better than Fight Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve rayson Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 And Kamala knows Steve's Mam as well. Â Can you blame him? He made that decision immediately after he had one look at your mother and said "I'll have none of that, thank you". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted April 7, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 And Kamala knows Steve's Mam as well. Â Can you blame him? He made that decision immediately after he had one look at your mother and said "I'll have none of that, thank you". He didnt actually. He was round the other week. We had a kick about in the garden. He's been a regular at the Hitmanhart household since the late 80s. It might be the reason why I'm fat and black, and my Dad is white and comes from Sunderland. Â Also, I thought you were done with this discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapnut Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Christopher Daniels is ratings. He's causing more controversy than Cena here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiffy Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Really, if you think he's the best in the world, or if you think he's utterly shit, you don't really understand the business, and talking like you do makes you a moron. Â Don't agree, and don't appreciate the general insult there either. I've stated why I think Daniels is rubbish, and, all due respect, I don't think you're in any position to tell anyone else whether they understand the business or not. You're a fan like we are; if you disagree with me from a fan perspective, fine, but statements like that are ridiculous. Â Daniels supposedly fits a niche. As far as I'm concerned, being unable to work more than one kind of match, and a style of match of which you really shouldn't have more than one on any single card, makes a bad wrestler. Being unable to work a character just adds to it. Â Not quite, to like him or dislike him from a fan perspective is one thing, to write him off as awful (or elevate him to best in the world) shows a distinct lack of understanding of the business. Bottom line in the business is not to have story driven emotional matches, it's just not. That's something that's been shown to work, but equally spot monkey matches have been shown to work as well. TNA have alot of fans of spot monkey matches which has meant daniels got rather over, to those fans and many others. If you're over to a relatively large group of fans then by every criteria that matters you're not utterly shit, and to say he is cos he's not to you taste misses the point. He's over, the fans like him, he puts on matches they want to see, he's doing his job and doing it well. Now you may point out that he'd be capable of getting more over, drawing more money, elevating himself up the card and generally do his job better if he worked more of his character in to his wrestling, and if he learned to tell a better story in there, and I'd say you'd be right, spot monkey's all well and good but it has a limited potential. But to say he's out and out shit's just ridiculous. And does show a complete lack of understanding of the most basic premise of the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Freebird Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I mean if one gimmick makes more money than another one what does it prove exactly in terms of quality   I fully agree.  This money = Wrestling ability argument in my opinion is a load of piss. As a wrestling fan, I couldn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJS269 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I love how this became a Daniels vs Undertaker comparison, they are two different styles and aren't comparable even if we ignore the popularity debate. Also I don't get why people say Daniels "can't work". To an extent they are right as he can't work "sports entertainment" style which requires selling and psychology. Daniels style isn't as popular, but of the people that work his style (Indy or Spot-Monkey or whatever you wanna call it) he is the best. He is far from unable to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THELONEGUNMAN Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I love how this became a Daniels vs Undertaker comparison, they are two different styles and aren't comparable even if we ignore the popularity debate. Also I don't get why people say Daniels "can't work". To an extent they are right as he can't work "sports entertainment" style which requires selling and psychology. Daniels style isn't as popular, but of the people that work his style (Indy or Spot-Monkey or whatever you wanna call it) he is the best. He is far from unable to work. Â the problem is without selling and psychology you have a showcase of gymnastic ability and not professional wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted April 7, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 Being unable to work a character just adds to it. Â That fallen angel crap with him having a prophecy or whatever is just a good a character as a man acting like he is undead and have mystical power from a bloody urn. Â You've completely missed the point. The Undertaker works his character - from the slow-walking entrance and music to the "undead from the coffin" sit-up to the pin with both hands across the chest with the tongue out and eyeballs rolled up, he looks and wrestles like the character he's claiming to be. Â When and how has Daniels ever wrestled like fallen angel? Once his entrance was done, his matches did not reflect it at all - there was nothing at all to tell that story, to get it over with the fans. He might as well have not bothered with having the gimmick at all, for all the difference it made to his story. Â Really, if you think he's the best in the world, or if you think he's utterly shit, you don't really understand the business, and talking like you do makes you a moron. Â Don't agree, and don't appreciate the general insult there either. I've stated why I think Daniels is rubbish, and, all due respect, I don't think you're in any position to tell anyone else whether they understand the business or not. You're a fan like we are; if you disagree with me from a fan perspective, fine, but statements like that are ridiculous. Â Daniels supposedly fits a niche. As far as I'm concerned, being unable to work more than one kind of match, and a style of match of which you really shouldn't have more than one on any single card, makes a bad wrestler. Being unable to work a character just adds to it. Â Not quite, to like him or dislike him from a fan perspective is one thing, to write him off as awful (or elevate him to best in the world) shows a distinct lack of understanding of the business. Bottom line in the business is not to have story driven emotional matches, it's just not. That's something that's been shown to work, but equally spot monkey matches have been shown to work as well. TNA have alot of fans of spot monkey matches which has meant daniels got rather over, to those fans and many others. If you're over to a relatively large group of fans then by every criteria that matters you're not utterly shit, and to say he is cos he's not to you taste misses the point. He's over, the fans like him, he puts on matches they want to see, he's doing his job and doing it well. Now you may point out that he'd be capable of getting more over, drawing more money, elevating himself up the card and generally do his job better if he worked more of his character in to his wrestling, and if he learned to tell a better story in there, and I'd say you'd be right, spot monkey's all well and good but it has a limited potential. But to say he's out and out shit's just ridiculous. And does show a complete lack of understanding of the most basic premise of the business. Â But that's the point: he's NOT over. Outside the Impact Zone, he gets no reaction in mainstream wrestling, and inside the Zone, the reactions he gets are largely from a tiny core of fans who followed him on the indy scene in the first place. From a business perspective, he's not viable at all; if I were a promoter wanting to make serious money, it wouldn't be in my interests to sign him, because he's not a draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Freebird Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 the problem is without selling and psychology you have a showcase of gymnastic ability and not professional wrestling. Â Or maybe there is more than one style of professional wrestling? Â All other styles than punch, kick, finisher seem to be fair game to write off as Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted April 7, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 the problem is without selling and psychology you have a showcase of gymnastic ability and not professional wrestling. Â Or maybe there is more than one style of professional wrestling? Â All other styles than punch, kick, finisher seem to be fair game to write off as Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted April 7, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 the problem is without selling and psychology you have a showcase of gymnastic ability and not professional wrestling. Â Or maybe there is more than one style of professional wrestling? Â All other styles than punch, kick, finisher seem to be fair game to write off as Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted April 7, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 7, 2011 All other styles than punch, kick, finisher seem to be fair game to write off as Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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