The AEW / ROH Brand Split... Whose going where?

[Loki]

I wonder if any of the AEW wrestlers are actually marks for RoH and would agree to move over there?  Your Claudio Castignolis or Bryan Danielsons might feel a residual loyalty to the company that introduced them to the US mainstream.

I really hope not.  The idea that someone like Samoa Joe, having been so successful in TNA and WWE, might be happy to spend the last few years of his career wrestling on ROH tv, saddens me.

[Keith Houchen]

45 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

Would he be interested in Darby?

Well if Vince is coming back, I’m sure he’d take him under his wing and teach him better ways to cover up what a rancid cunt he is. All DMs shown will have to be revenge porn obviously. 

[Infinity Land]

A lot people seem to think of this as Raw - Smackdown (which as far as i'm aware has some crossover anyway).

Not AEW-NJ Strong (Eddie, Trent, The Factory, Blake Christian + others). Or any of the other Indies that AEW talents have taken dates over the years.

If you just watch Dynamite nothing's likely to change from your viewing experience. Except a couple of belts being on different people for reasons unknown to you.

[gmoney]

I do find it odd that some people find the ROH brand so off putting, given that the booking and talent is almost exactly the same as AEW. A good lesson in the power of branding, I supposes. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by gmoney

[DavidB6937]

1 minute ago, gmoney said:

I do find it odd that some people find the ROH brand so off putting, given that the booking and talent is almost exactly the same as AEW. A good lesson in the power of branding, I supposes. 

It's nothing to do with branding.

1. The existence of ROH has been incredibly intrusive on AEW programming and spread Tony's booking thin.

2. The suggestion that some talent moves over to ROH to gain momentum or whatever else suggests that people should be expected to watch yet another weekly show on top of everything else. And they shouldn't have to.

[gmoney]

5 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

It's nothing to do with branding.

1. The existence of ROH has been incredibly intrusive on AEW programming and spread Tony's booking thin.

It's exactly the same booker, on the same show with mostly the same wrestlers. The only real difference is the branding.

[Infinity Land]

From June onwards

• CM Punk injury at LA Dynamite
• Forbidden Door & the NJPW build
• MJF sitting out in the shoot/kayfabed storyline over his contract
• Jeff Hardy suspension
• Adam Cole concussion
• Bryan Danielson concussion
• Kris Statlander injury
• Thunder Rosa back problems
• Keep it simple: Brawl Out
• House of Black sitting out
• Andrade injury/suspension
• Eddie Kingston suspension
• William Regal getting written out
• Miro rejecting his booking and on the sidelines

But aye, it was Ring of Honor that fecked the booking.

 

 

 

 

 

[RedRooster]

22 minutes ago, Infinity Land said:

But aye, it was Ring of Honor that fecked the booking.

I think you’ve been a bit generous with your list there. I don’t think losing Statlander, Andrade, Jeff Hardy, House of Black or even Adam Cole had a significantly negative impact. Heck, in some cases it likely led to a net positive - no one here was exactly tearing it up in AEW. Danielson’s absence was short term, and Miro, as great as he is, was being rather underutilised; so his absence hasn’t been overly noticeable. 

They definitely missed MJF, and the Punk situation fucked things up too.

That said, no one is suggesting that ROH is the only reason things took a turn, but quite clearly it’s been a contributing factor, and a significant one at that. I’d be interested to hear your defence of it.

[Nick James]

The fact that the ROH stuff flooding Dynamite and Rampage has been a big criticism not only here, but most other parts of the internet tells you that the ROH stuff was a factor in people either turning off, or not being as exited as they once were. Forbidden Door build was the original ROH criticism, that was just as bad, then they got that out of the way and went straight in with ROH.

ROH is not solely to blame by any stretch, month long feuds that just go on and on are as bad. How long has Matt Hardy been feuding with or trying to get back on terms with Private Party? Or how many variations of HFO has their been? That's been going on since before Rampage debuted it feels.

Tony has been dealt a shit hand in some circumstances, but a lot of the downturn in quality etc, has been at his own doing.

At least with the Codyverse stuff, you knew you could avoid most of it as it was its own entity. Cody leaving feels like more of a catalyst for change than anything. Maybe he had Tony's ear more than we thought and could wind him in a little.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Nick James

[CavemanLynn]

The ROH invasion helped drive down my enjoyment of Dynamite by being exactly what it's always been - the home of work rate and "real wrestling." It's boring. What I hope is that by splitting away even a little, Dynamite can get back to what it was, which was the perfect blend of quality ring work and sports entertainment characters, bang smack in the sweet spot between ROH and WWE.

[Infinity Land]

1 minute ago, RedRooster said:

I think you’ve been a bit generous with your list there. I don’t think losing Statlander, Andrade, Jeff Hardy, House of Black or even Adam Cole had a significantly negative impact. Heck, in some cases it likely led to a net positive - no one here was exactly tearing it up in AEW. Danielson’s absence was short term, and Miro, as great as he is, was being rather underutilised; so his absence hasn’t been overly noticeable. 

They definitely missed MJF, and the Punk situation fucked things up too.

That said, no one is suggesting that ROH is the only reason things took a turn, but quite clearly it’s been a contributing factor, and a significant one at that. I’d be interested to hear your defence of it.

Statlander was meant to at least challenge if not win the TBS title. Which if true would have shaken up the Women's division a bit. Jade instead is doing the same thing as the bulk of the year.

Andrade held up the 10 turn. So how was that handled booking wise. Drag it out some more.

Jeff Hardy's suspension may have worked out with Swerve in Our Glory depending on how people feel, but led to a lot of people clamouring for FTR v. The Bucks which was never planned and never pivoted towards.

House of the Black are currently taking up quite a bit of TV time. None of it's ROH related. Doesn't matter if it's liked or not. The void gets filled with something. Same is true of Adam Cole.

 

Things that are meant to have cluttered up Dynamite/Rampage because ROH. A couple of Jonathan Gresham appearances and turn to Tully Blanchard Enterprises mixed in with Joe v. Lethal. Was in part about getting Satnam over more than anything for TV. Gresham was gone by July. Joe would disappear and not actual wrestle in AEW between the Owen Hart Final and September return where he was no best mates with Wardlow. The ROH TV title was just a prop on his shoulder most of the time.

FTR walked around with an extra set of belts for 6+ months. The couple of ROH tag title defences were about the only excuse TK found to get them on TV for matches. Since the Punk plans in June and then post-September never went the way he wanted.

After Gresham dropped the World Title it would get caught up in the BCC v. JAS never ending saga. There's little there that changes with ROH taken out of it. Jericho still would have found time to have random matches with people to prove Sports Entertainment beats Wrestling. Garcia v. Wheeler Yuta would have happened.

The Women's Title was iced with Mercedes out injured. The Interim v. World title only the 2nd time a Women's Match has main evented Dynamite this year I believe? So at least it did something noteworthy. The Deeb & Martinez partnership into feud at least gave them something to do.

6 man titles I think have just be on the youtube shows?

 

 

 

 

[gmoney]

1 minute ago, Infinity Land said:

Things that are meant to have cluttered up Dynamite/Rampage because ROH. A couple of Jonathan Gresham appearances and turn to Tully Blanchard Enterprises mixed in with Joe v. Lethal. Was in part about getting Satnam over more than anything for TV. Gresham was gone by July. Joe would disappear and not actual wrestle in AEW between the Owen Hart Final and September return where he was no best mates with Wardlow. The ROH TV title was just a prop on his shoulder most of the time.

FTR walked around with an extra set of belts for 6+ months. The couple of ROH tag title defences were about the only excuse TK found to get them on TV for matches. Since the Punk plans in June and then post-September never went the way he wanted.

After Gresham dropped the World Title it would get caught up in the BCC v. JAS never ending saga. There's little there that changes with ROH taken out of it. Jericho still would have found time to have random matches with people to prove Sports Entertainment beats Wrestling. Garcia v. Wheeler Yuta would have happened.

The Women's Title was iced with Mercedes out injured. The Interim v. World title only the 2nd time a Women's Match has main evented Dynamite this year I believe? So at least it did something noteworthy. The Deeb & Martinez partnership into feud at least gave them something to do.

6 man titles I think have just be on the youtube shows?

Quite. It's all just mediocre booking, which has been a problem with the undercard of the whole show, not just ROH stuff. 

[Merzbow]

ROH is so shit it's fucking up it's own threads.

[Infinity Land]

3 minutes ago, gmoney said:

Quite. It's all just mediocre booking, which has been a problem with the undercard of the whole show, not just ROH stuff. 

Pretty much. Which is why losing talents that TK had plans for has been more of a fuck up to the booking. As he's shown an inability to pivot to the hot hand too often.

 

[Loki]

It’s not ROH per see, it’s the fact that having to book two brands, all those extra belts and PPVs and chasing tv deals, has very clearly diluted the attention of Tony Sniff and his execs.

 So the AEW product  has suffered and the ROH product isn’t exactly setting the world on fire.

I caught Rampage from last week and Shida was defending ANOTHER fucking belt that’s not from either promotion, that I’d never heard of.   There’s too much… stuff, belts, promotions, houses, stables.   Too much being crammed onto tv.

RoH just needs to be split off, given its own roster, handed to a different booker.  Then all the workrate jocksniffers can pay their 30 dollars a month for ROH TV and PPVs, and AEW can get back to some firmer footing.