Survivor Series 2021

[sivy]

Didn't they change it to Sid for 2 reasons I think. Shawn buried Vader to the office saying he was too dangerous or stiff to work with. The second reason I think was how hot Sid got in the second half of  96 

[WyattSheepMask]

23 minutes ago, sivy said:

Didn't they change it to Sid for 2 reasons I think. Shawn buried Vader to the office saying he was too dangerous or stiff to work with. The second reason I think was how hot Sid got in the second half of  96 

Probably lies somewhere in the middle. Michaels wasn’t keen on working with Vader for the most part and although not on Kliq-levels of friendship, Michaels and Sid were mates. Sid had gotten over massive that Summer, so Shawn going to Vince and suggesting that he give his friend the rub in NY on Survivor Series (back when it still mattered) is a possibility, which in turn lead to Shawn winning it back at The Royal Rumble. 
With December’s PPV being IYH: It’s Time, clearly Vader was obviously pencilled in for winning the belt at some point though, something which must’ve been scuppered between August and November. 
Then we got knee injuries that weren’t that bad after all, lost smiles, ‘Tell Me A Lie’ music videos and all that shite.

Its probably worth giving that period another listen on the New Generation Podcast as they go into a lot of detail from various sources.

Edited November 24, 2021 by WyattSheepMask

[air_raid]

59 minutes ago, sivy said:

Didn't they change it to Sid for 2 reasons I think. Shawn buried Vader to the office saying he was too dangerous or stiff to work with. The second reason I think was how hot Sid got in the second half of  96 

It’s true, him dropping the fall to Vader is a weird one if it wasn’t going anywhere however. Mind you, they taped all the Raw for those weeks the night after Mind Games so there was still three weeks for Shawn to say “Fuck this” and the go-home episode for Buried Alive teased animosity between Shawn and Sid so they laid seeds for either match at Survivor Series anyway.

Stuff happening and not going anywhere was pretty common for this period anyway as I’ve mentioned in other threads. The brawl between Shawn/Sid and Vader/Austin at the end of that go-home Raw (with a comedic attempted save by Savio Vega) is observed from the aisle by fake Diesel & Razor which made them seem like they were going to be players. They weren’t.

[sivy]

50 minutes ago, WyattSheepMask said:

Probably lies somewhere in the middle. Michaels wasn’t keen on working with Vader for the most part and although not on Kliq-levels of friendship, Michaels and Sid were mates. Sid had gotten over massive that Summer, so Shawn going to Vince and suggesting that he give his friend the rub in NY on Survivor Series (back when it still mattered) is a possibility, which in turn lead to Shawn winning it back at The Royal Rumble. 
With December’s PPV being IYH: It’s Time, clearly Vader was obviously pencilled in for winning the belt at some point though, something which must’ve been scuppered between August and November. 
Then we got knee injuries that weren’t that bad after all, lost smiles, ‘Tell Me A Lie’ music videos and all that shite.

Its probably worth giving that period another listen on the New Generation Podcast as they go into a lot of detail from various sources.

Any excuse to give New generation podcast another go is always welcome. 

I think after summerslam Vader was done as a main heel. He had to win it at summerslam really. I don't think you'd get the same pop for Vader winning at survivor series than Sid got. But to be fair to Sid he always got big reactions from the crowd

[The Dart]

1 hour ago, WyattSheepMask said:

Probably lies somewhere in the middle. Michaels wasn’t keen on working with Vader for the most part and although not on Kliq-levels of friendship, Michaels and Sid were mates. Sid had gotten over massive that Summer, so Shawn going to Vince and suggesting that he give his friend the rub in NY on Survivor Series (back when it still mattered) is a possibility, which in turn lead to Shawn winning it back at The Royal Rumble. 
With December’s PPV being IYH: It’s Time, clearly Vader was obviously pencilled in for winning the belt at some point though, something which must’ve been scuppered between August and November. 
Then we got knee injuries that weren’t that bad after all, lost smiles, ‘Tell Me A Lie’ music videos and all that shite.

Its probably worth giving that period another listen on the New Generation Podcast as they go into a lot of detail from various sources.

That was a year earlier !

[WyattSheepMask]

10 minutes ago, The Dart said:

That was a year earlier !

It was, when he was attacked by anywhere between 1 and a billion Marines, but they updated it in 97 when he “lost his smile”, it was all the TV at the time

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by WyattSheepMask

[RedRooster]

21 hours ago, Callum1993 said:

Ironically on the subject of the WWE champion losing. Over the last few years when they’ve done Universal Champion vs WWE Champion at Survivor Series every time they’ve done it the Universal Champion has won (Brock vs Styles in 2017 and Bryan in 2018) and (Reigns vs Mcintyre last year) so it’s not a new development but still not great for the belt which is supposed to be the most prestigious in the company. 

I'm not sure it is anymore. The Universal belt has always been on what WWE is treating as the "A" show at that given time, and I honestly think, if the brand split were to end tomorrow and they decided to retire a title, it would be the WWE title, and the Universal belt would continue on; much as they did with the original Women's title (with the Diva's belt taking over) and the tag titles. 

[Jazzy G]

They'd probably unify them, but I can't imagine they'd drop the WWE title ahead of the Universal championship. 

[Lenin]

2 hours ago, WyattSheepMask said:

Its probably worth giving that period another listen on the New Generation Podcast

Never come across the podcast before - is tagged under one of the IYH events or what number approximately? Thanks!

[WyattSheepMask]

19 minutes ago, Suplex Sinner said:

Never come across the podcast before - is tagged under one of the IYH events or what number approximately? Thanks!

If you’re looking to just look at the period we’ve been mentioning then Episode 38 is IYH: International Incident and covers Sid coming back in mid 1996 - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-new-generation-project-podcast/id749154884?i=1000343264178

The whole podcast is worth a go though. Takes them a couple of episodes early on to get their format down, but it is a really good listen. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by WyattSheepMask

[RedRooster]

30 minutes ago, jazzygeofferz said:

They'd probably unify them, but I can't imagine they'd drop the WWE title ahead of the Universal championship. 

They'd almost certainly take the unification route, but I imagine they'd carry over the Universal lineage as the "main" one, albeit quietly. I don't know whether they think "long" lineages makes them feel less current, or if they simply like the word "Universal", but their treatment of the WWE title gives me the impression that they would quietly continue on the lineage of the Universal belt post-unification. 

[air_raid]

21 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

They'd almost certainly take the unification route, but I imagine they'd carry over the Universal lineage as the "main" one, albeit quietly. I don't know whether they think "long" lineages makes them feel less current, or if they simply like the word "Universal", but their treatment of the WWE title gives me the impression that they would quietly continue on the lineage of the Universal belt post-unification. 

Have a look at the official lineage of the tag belts. They’ve abandoned the ones that Demolition and the Outlaws held. The SmackDown tag team titles are the ones that they introduced with the revitalised brand split which Slater & Rhino won, the Raw tag titles have the lineage of the ones that were unified during (IIRC) the time of the Hart Dynasty holding them, and prior to that the history rather than tracing the “World Tag Team titles” as Raw called them after the first split, but the “WWE Tag Team titles” introduced with Angle/Benoit… for SmackDown. In other words both sets of belts started on SmackDown and neither predates 2002.

[Lenin]

1 hour ago, WyattSheepMask said:

If you’re looking to just look at the period we’ve been mentioning then Episode 38 is IYH: International Incident and covers Sid coming back in mid 1996 - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-new-generation-project-podcast/id749154884?i=1000343264178

The whole podcast is worth a go though. Takes them a couple of episodes early on to get their format down, but it is a really good listen. 

Thank you very much, I shall fire this up in the background while I work. Cheers again. 

[air_raid]

For those of you more interested in revisiting 1996 than the current product (like me) - I’ve discovered that I was confused re: Vader. His shoulder injury that required surgery was the reason behind his storyline suspension after attacking Gorilla Monsoon, his shoulder injury in late 96 was pure kayfabe that they mentioned on Raw the night after Survivors purely as an excuse to change Austin/Vader to Austin/Mankind. Vader worked a dark match that night and didn’t miss any dates, so he definitely got removed from the plan to win the belt for creative rather than injury reasons. Austin v Vader did happen on a later episode of Raw, neither that nor Austin/Mankind had a finish.

[air_raid]

Final bump to talk about 1996, I promise.

On 11/25/2021 at 8:54 AM, air_raid said:

For those of you more interested in revisiting 1996 than the current product (like me) - I’ve discovered that I was confused re: Vader.
(snip)

he definitely got removed from the plan to win the belt for creative rather than injury reasons.

From a STW I have listened to it seems Meltzer reported that right before Buried Alive, Vader and Farooq were no longer winning their matches and WWF/Intercontinental titles accordingly, because JJ Dillon had just left they didn’t want to go ahead on any plans he knew of and would stooge to WCW. Prichard thinks that’s bullshit and so do I.

Interesting to think Farooq would have held the Intercontinental title, presumably to defend it later on against Ahmed. If Hunter wasn’t due to win the belt, I wonder if him vs Perfect would have gone ahead rather than turning Curt heel.