2001: A Wrestling Odyssey

[Tommy!]

4 minutes ago, Factotum said:

By the way that episode of RAW where ECW came back and Heyman cut that promo on Jr and WWF is a helluva episode

It's a great first hour, but even then they pissed it all away by the close of the show. I think they were creativity burnt out by late 2000, but they were hot and could ride the wave because when you are hot you can get away with some shit, see the aforementioned Debra shoehorned into Rock v Austin. 

Austin in 01 was a tricky one. The landscape had changed while he was away, people had gotten used to seeing a more balanced top to bottom show and more intermingled people, in his prime the undercard was the undercard and full of life midcarders who could be stunner fodder for him while he worked with undertaker, foley & rock. The second half of 99 they were already struggling to get people he'd agree to work with that were fresh and a name, with endless Taker or hunter feuds all he really wanted to do. 

However he was still too loved by the fans, and being out for a year didn't help because absence only made people miss him, so a turn was never really going to work well. 

I'm sure it could be done, but as said they were on the slide creatively and just didn't have the steam or right frame of mind to do it. 

7 minutes ago, Gay as FOOK said:

95, 96, 98, 01, 02 and 05 all either had great cards or something noteworthy going on that made it feel like a big event, or something that could only happen at Survivor Series. Okay so six out of ten, but not bad by WWE standards compared to the tripe Survivor Series has been for ages now. They were going to bin it at one point about ten years ago, weren't they? 

I'd throw 03 in there, the Austin v Bischoff match is a personal favourite SS match. 

And there was talk of dropping it, it was about the same time they upped the gimmick ppv numbers, which on the face of it is mad as they had an established gimmick show they didn't really use the gimmick on but added one nearly the same in bragging rights, but the novelty of SS in the early days was seeing odd or new mixes and transitioning feuds. By the late 90s that was what raw was all about, so it lost it's sparkle sadly. 

The WWF never really cared for it either, it wasn't a big well thought out show in the calendar or gimmick concept like mania, rumble or summerslam. It was just thrown out to dick over crocett while they had leverage with the ppv carries after mania 3.

[The Gaffer]

Of course! I forgot 03. One of HBK's best ever performances and Vince's ludicrous blade job. 

On the subject of post Survivor Series 2001, I remember me and my friend back then ordering a take away and some cans of coke, getting real excited for the next Raw. We were certain it was going to be new logo, new stage set, the works. A huge reset and push towards the future. There was some decent pushes (mostly on Smackdown) by mid 2002 but good lord, the TV became atrocious after the invasion and right through to WrestleMania X8. You could tell they just lost the plot (literally) and were basking in the moment of being the only game in town. It was like what happens when teams win the league with a half dozen games to go. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Gay as FOOK

[Sphinx]

It's interesting for me to think now how ancient Goldust, Godfather and, to a lesser extent, Big Boss Man seemed being in Rumble 02. I hadn't realised that Boss Man had returned the month before until recently but they seemed like they were from a different era to me. Being 10 years old I guess my concept of time was different but I still think that things went by at such a speed back then.

[Factotum]

I think that RAW after SS 01 was great in how it reset Angle as the chicken shit heel, Austin back as a face, Ric Flair, The King coming back (which at the time I was delighted with)

[Statto]

1 hour ago, Infinity Land said:

Main Event Championship Wrestling were the one event wonder wannabe ECW.

I bought the MECW show from Strong Style Tapes, for some reason.

It was weird, mostly ECW guys doing their ECW gimmicks but a couple doing slight tweaks (e.g. Danny Doring & Chris Chetti as a tag team called Erotica IIRC), Curt Hennig as the champion (awarded the belt) and a handful of "indy" type names like Rockin' Rebel, Wildcat Chris Harris and probably Reckless Youth?

[AshC]

That MECW show got a big spread in Power Slam IIRC, so I was convinced they were the most likely heir to the WCW/ECW throne, for a month or two anyway!

[Liam O'Rourke]

2 hours ago, BomberPat said:

As great as Wrestlemania 2001 was, when you remember that a significant part of the build to The Rock vs. Steve Austin was around fucking Debra being made The Rock's manager, you realise that the wheels were starting to fall off a little earlier than you might otherwise think.

The Debra angle is even worse because you can tell they know it's shit. Any time they interview Debra, it goes 15 seconds and she just says she doesn't want to talk about it. Austin in the sitdown promo outright says she's a non-factor. They're advertising Debra as being in Rock's corner at Mania right up until the final Smackdown when they pull her. You'd think, judging from the build, that the idea was for Debra to screw Rock at Mania and for them to turn heel together, with Vince being the one who put her there as part of the plan. Then they started the angle, remembered how shit she was, and dropped it.

There's all sorts of other stuff that is just not good. Police are called on Undertaker for waiting for Triple H with a pipe and threatening to batter him. He gets arrested. Mid-arrest, Hunter punches him in the face right in front of the cops, and they just back him off and continue arresting Taker, who actually never hit anybody.

This leads to Triple H Vs. Test a couple of weeks before Mania, and ends up with Taker running off Triple H and needlessly burying babyface Test with a chokeslam making him look like a complete tool. The caste system is in full effect.

On the flip side, you know the shining star? Commissioner Regal. He's absolutely brilliant in every segment. Not news to anybody, but worth restating.

[BomberPat]

Commissioner Regal and Commissioner Foley were both highlights, and both for completely different reasons.

My brother hasn't watched wrestling since 2002, and still at least once a month references, "he wants me to rub the moons on his belly?!"

[The Gaffer]

Regal's that rare character performer in wrestling that can be the first person to join Vince McMahon's kiss my ass club and not suffer in the slightest for it. It actually benefits his character and he remains just as dangerous a threat in the ring. Guy's a gift. No wonder he was their mechanic-in-chief once he sorted himself out. 

[BomberPat]

5 minutes ago, Gay as FOOK said:

Regal's that rare character performer in wrestling that can be the first person to join Vince McMahon's kiss my ass club and not suffer in the slightest for it. It actually benefits his character and he remains just as dangerous a threat in the ring. Guy's a gift. No wonder he was their mechanic-in-chief once he sorted himself out. 

I always had a soft spot for Regal as a rare (back then) bit of British representation in the WWF, and because by his own admission he always did all the stuck-up Englishmen act with enough of a nod and a wink to the UK audience to let us know that he was in on the joke - one of my favourites from him as Commissioner was putting down Tajiri, saying, "now now, stop all that bowing, we'll have no ethnic stereotypes in the WWF! Now fetch me my tea and crumpets", which was just a level of self-awareness rarely seen in the WWF - but it was around 2002/3 that I began to realise just what an ideal performer he was.

It might have been on Tough Enough or something like that, but one of his bits of advice to anyone wanting to get into the WWF was "think about the most embarrassing thing that could ever happen to you, and let them do it to you", because it showed complete commitment to playing a heel character that was prepared to get their comeuppance. He just 100% committed to everything, and had such a strong sense of his own character that even when he was pivoting from effete posh gent to violent, sadistic villain, it always felt consistent, never like you were watching him play two different roles. And during his rare babyface stints, when he dropped the comedy and got serious you knew it meant business.

He also has the rare thing of not really seeing himself as a top guy, nor pushing himself to be one. That meant that he was able to do stuff like the Kiss My Ass Club or drinking Chris Jericho's pissy tea without it undermining him, because no part of him was trying to be too cool for school about having to do it, but it also meant that - again, particularly as a babyface, he was capable of a kind of promo that pretty much no one else nails like he does. If you look at his promo where he stands up to Triple H over Eugene, or his promo before his final match against Cesaro, he basically says, "I know you're better than me, but I'm prepared to lose so long as I can get my hands on you". I can't think of anyone in WWE now who could do a promo acknowledging that his opponent is the better wrestler, but still come out of it with legitimacy and credibility intact, and having sold you on the match.

[Liam O'Rourke]

Every time he's on-screen during the Commissioner run, he'll just say a little sentence that is a total throwaway, but is delivered in such style that it's hilarious. He summons Coachman to his office, and when he walks in, he says, "Do you not know to knock when you come to the Commissioner's office? Shape yourself up man, what's the matter with you? Have some pride." The execution of the last three words is glorious, so matter of fact.

[The Gaffer]

25 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

He also has the rare thing of not really seeing himself as a top guy, nor pushing himself to be one. 

A useful reminder that "If you're not here to be the champion, you can hit the road brother" is one of the worst takes in wrestling.

[Perry]

Speaking of Regal, I loved it when he would still shit on the audience at the Insurrextion and Rebellion shows in the UK.  I think some expected him to be a babyface just for the one night.

 

[wandshogun09]

31 minutes ago, Liam O'Rourke said:

Every time he's on-screen during the Commissioner run, he'll just say a little sentence that is a total throwaway, but is delivered in such style that it's hilarious. He summons Coachman to his office, and when he walks in, he says, "Do you not know to knock when you come to the Commissioner's office? Shape yourself up man, what's the matter with you? Have some pride." The execution of the last three words is glorious, so matter of fact.

One of my favourites along these lines was a short backstage segment where Regal’s sat in his Commissioner’s office with Tajiri and Rhyno bursts in fuming about something and shouting that he wants a match booked. When he leaves, Regal turns to Tajiri and says “Did you see the size of the head on him?! It’s like an orange on a toothpick.” Just a silly throwaway line but the way he said it floored me. 

[Carbomb]

1 hour ago, Gay as FOOK said:

A useful reminder that "If you're not here to be the champion, you can hit the road brother" is one of the worst takes in wrestling.

The moment I read that he'd said that, I thought "But that's exactly something Barry Horowitz or Steve Lombardi would disagree with". Lombardi in particular made a point to be particularly useful in this regard, by playing several different jobber characters - that's one thing a main-eventer can't really do.