Paid Members Accident Prone Posted September 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 5, 2019 The promoter posted this to his FaceBook page, although nothing official on Twitter just yet. No word from Rev Pro either, as far as I'm aware; Which makes the 26/10 9th Anniversary show the final SWE show; Share your memories of SWE! Chat about their great shows and weekenders! Speculate as to why this is actually happening and how much blame should be thrown at NXT-UK and WWE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TildeGuy~! Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) Two wrestlers on the poster who are not even allowed to work Rev Pro, I’m not really aware of who Southside have wrestling for them, anyone good? Edited September 5, 2019 by TildeGuy~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I'm wondering how much David Starr's 'Independent' campaign is affecting business. Don't get me wrong - wrestlers having a higher minimum rate and other benefits like catering at the venue etc. is good for them but, in a climate where WWE is already monopolising a lot of the wrestlers who can command a higher fee I just wonder whether it is pricing promotions out of the game. I'm in two minds because inherently it's a good thing and nobody should work for a sandwich and a handshake but at the same time the UK scene is an independent scene and if promoters cannot afford higher rates, full catering service at every show for 20 wrestlers etc etc then things are inevitably going to suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted September 5, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 5, 2019 Fucking hell, SBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted September 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) If they can't afford to pay wrestlers properly, they shouldn't be running. Nobody's entitled to have a business. EDIT: That's a general thought. Nothing aimed at Southside - I've never heard anything bad about them. Edited September 5, 2019 by Carbomb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironic Indie Lad Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 David Starr as a main event attraction is definitely more likely to kill the business than his union man gimmick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Carbomb said: If they can't afford to pay wrestlers properly, they shouldn't be running. Nobody's entitled to have a business. EDIT: That's a general thought. Nothing aimed at Southside - I've never heard anything bad about them. I agree, for what it's worth - my point being that this may have a knock on effect. It's like the never ending debate in the performing arts - 'You should never work for free'. I agree. However, if the... I dunno... next Madonna tour wants dancers for free there will always be those that do it for the experience or in the hopes that this will lead to other work which is paid. It effects those who never work for free because there are always those willing to do it for less/free and this adversely effects everyone - it means promoters can do it again because there is a market for it and it means those who, quite rightly, wanting paying a reasonable wage for working have to struggle/lose out on opportunities because 'Oh well, we'll just get these in who can do it cheaper/for free'. In having a minimum wage/requirements for wrestlers it means that those wrestlers may be edged out by promoters looking to cut costs [and I am not talking about Southside here as they clearly had no trouble doing that]. Yes, in an ideal world, every promotion.promoter should not be running if they cannot give their wrestlers a decent wage etc but that's not how this works. Oh, and Accident Prone - go fuck yourself.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted September 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said: I agree, for what it's worth - my point being that this may have a knock on effect. It's like the never ending debate in the performing arts - 'You should never work for free'. I agree. However, if the... I dunno... next Madonna tour wants dancers for free there will always be those that do it for the experience or in the hopes that this will lead to other work which is paid. It effects those who never work for free because there are always those willing to do it for less/free and this adversely effects everyone - it means promoters can do it again because there is a market for it and it means those who, quite rightly, wanting paying a reasonable wage for working have to struggle/lose out on opportunities because 'Oh well, we'll just get these in who can do it cheaper/for free'. In having a minimum wage/requirements for wrestlers it means that those wrestlers may be edged out by promoters looking to cut costs [and I am not talking about Southside here as they clearly had no trouble doing that]. Yes, in an ideal world, every promotion.promoter should not be running if they cannot give their wrestlers a decent wage etc but that's not how this works.  Unfortunately, 100% correct. It's because there's no governing body or legal/statutory framework set down and recognised by the industry as a whole. This is why the British Wrestling Council thing was so aggravating. There absolutely should be a governing body for wrestling, to ensure minimum standards, wages, and protections for wrestlers, but also for licencing promoters, rather than just letting any old Bowler run some anti-Chinese, no-Rumble, no-pies tinpot. But because of who was running it, there was no trust, and certainly no appetite for it. Recently, I think there's been a move to have wrestlers be recognised for Equity membership, which is a great idea - there's already a strong framework in place, well established in its relations with the industry, and it doesn't have to start from the absolute beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Carbomb said: Unfortunately, 100% correct. It's because there's no governing body or legal/statutory framework set down and recognised by the industry as a whole. This is why the British Wrestling Council thing was so aggravating. There absolutely should be a governing body for wrestling, to ensure minimum standards, wages, and protections for wrestlers, but also for licencing promoters, rather than just letting any old Bowler run some anti-Chinese, no-Rumble, no-pies tinpot. But because of who was running it, there was no trust, and certainly no appetite for it. Recently, I think there's been a move to have wrestlers be recognised for Equity membership, which is a great idea - there's already a strong framework in place, well established in its relations with the industry, and it doesn't have to start from the absolute beginning. If Starr gets it to work, honestly good for him, but sadly I feel it may have the reverse effect and we end up with more tin pot promotions who put untrained workers on for a handshake and a hotdog and those who rightly demand a decent wage being left out in the cold. I've been around the performance industry nearly 20 years and seen it happen all the time. I don't blame those who do free/cheap gigs [shit, I've done them myself in the past - 'It'll look good on the CV', 'It'll get me noticed', 'It could lead to paid work in the future' etc etc] but until there is something in place across the board [which there will always be opposition to in certain circles due to financial implications] then those going 'I'm not working unless you give me this, this and this' will always find themselves at some point being overlooked for the person behind them jumping up and down and going 'I'll do it for less/free!'. Edited September 5, 2019 by Snitsky's back acne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted September 5, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Snitsky's back acne said: Oh, and Accident Prone - go fuck yourself. Spoken like a true anti-unionist. Carbomb mentioned Equity getting involved in the wrestling business (most notably Pro Wrestling Eve) and David Starr has been pushing Equity hard along with his INDEPENDENT campaign, but you've just ignored that point to talk up your weird opinion of Starr. Dislike him as a wrestler, fine. He's not for everybody. But to place the crumbling of wrestling promotions, and the contrived theory that bookers will be forced to book cheap shitarses, at his feet is such Kwik-Save brand tinfoil hat thinking. Edited September 5, 2019 by Accident Prone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Accident Prone said: Spoken like a true anti-unionist. Carbomb mentioned Equity getting involved in the wrestling business (most notably Pro Wrestling Eve) and David Starr has been pushing Equity hard along with his INDEPENDENT campaign, but you've just ignored that point to talk up your weird opinion of Starr. Dislike him as a wrestler, fine. He's not for everybody. But to place the crumbling of wrestling promotions, and the contrived theory that bookers will be forced to book cheap shitarses, at his feet is such Kwik-Save brand tinfoil hat thinking. I've not mentioned anything about Starr as a wrestler [or otherwise] and my whole post was about Starr's campaign of getting Equity involved in the wrestling business and the potential pitfalls it could bring [so I wasn't ignoring anything]. I wasn't laying anything at Starr's feet - rather noting the possible 'issues' it could bring based upon the shitty nature of the wrestling business - which I could have elaborated on had you asked instead of assuming I was being a cunt about it. So, again, go fuck yourself.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted September 5, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 5, 2019 "Back in my day you had to work three days a week and twice on Sunday's just to get a gig in a pub toilet, and I turned out fine!." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordsfromlee Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Snitsky's back acne said: It's like the never ending debate in the performing arts - 'You should never work for free'. I agree. However, if the... I dunno... next Madonna tour wants dancers for free there will always be those that do it for the experience or in the hopes that this will lead to other work which is paid. It effects those who never work for free because there are always those willing to do it for less/free and this adversely effects everyone - it means promoters can do it again because there is a market for it and it means those who, quite rightly, wanting paying a reasonable wage for working have to struggle/lose out on opportunities because 'Oh well, we'll just get these in who can do it cheaper/for free'. There would be people willing to work for free but I 100% guarantee they'd be absolute fucking dogshit at it. That's why Madge hires people rather than getting in people who get paid in "experience". If you're good enough for someone like Madonna to want you to work for her, then you're going to be at a standard where you're a professional who is getting paid gigs anyway. If you're good enough for Her Madgesty, you're good enough to get paid elsewhere. Promoters could quite conceivably put on a show with wrestlers who are willing to work for free, rather than paying the guys who want paying a minimum wage, but it would not be a show worth watching, never mind paying money to see. There's always that one tag match which has a couple of really green guys on a small indy card. Imagine a whole card of that. That'll shift tickets! That's what it would be like hiring the guys willing to work for free. You gotta spend money to make money. They say that in films. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, wordsfromlee said: There would be people willing to work for free but I 100% guarantee they'd be absolute fucking dogshit at it. That's why Madge hires people rather than getting in people who get paid in "experience". If you're good enough for someone like Madonna to want you to work for her, then you're going to be at a standard where you're a professional who is getting paid gigs anyway. If you're good enough for Her Madgesty, you're good enough to get paid elsewhere.  I promise you this kind of thing is much more prolific than you think and the performers doing it - dancers in this instance - are usually very good. Oftentimes its the management/production company rather than the performer who decides these things but, still... I taught at a performing arts school about 5-6 years ago with professional/semi-professional dancers/actors/singers and the opportunity to work a Kylie Minogue tour (and music video if I remember rightly) came up - about 50 or so dancers, very good dancers, went for it and all were told by the people in charge that the gig was not paid. However some [most, actually] were still interested because they would be flown around the world and... well, it's Kylie, yeah? Great experience and what a thing to put on your CV - travelling the world as part of the Kylie tour/being in a Kylie video!! Equity prevents this kind of thing - and that is great. However if some promoters etc can save money and get decent performers free/on the cheap they absolutely will - and there will always be those who work for free/cheaper than they should. It's a problem in all aspects of performance industries where individuals largely work for themselves and have no guarantee of a regular income. This recent article outlines some of the problems that have been around forever in the performing arts and are relevant to the wrestling industry too. https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/jul/12/pop-industry-accused-of-taking-advantage-of-dancers-music   Edited September 5, 2019 by Snitsky's back acne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted September 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 5, 2019 Well you’ve sold it to me lads, can’t wait for the best of DVD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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