MrK Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 54 minutes ago, David said: Most likely due to the size of their respective fanbases, no? I mean, they could parachute Luton Town, Venezia, Malaga or Vitória de Guimarães into the English Premiership, but I doubt they'd be seen as an extremely profitable venture. Certainly not in the same way as Celtic, and to a slightly lesser degree Rangers are. How many of the 20 Premier League teams are owned or controlled by overseas companies/owners? I think the answer suggests that any team in the Premier League is seen as an extremely profitable venture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 32 minutes ago, MrK said: How many of the 20 Premier League teams are owned or controlled by overseas companies/owners? I think the answer suggests that any team in the Premier League is seen as an extremely profitable venture Are all of those teams profitable though? I honestly don't know, but my point still stands. You surely recognise that both Rangers and Celtic would be far more attractive to big money investors than just any club who would theoretically be parachuted into the league? They both have fanbases built-in that are huge as it is, and would grow quite a bit if they were to be part of the Premiership. It'll never happen, mind you, but still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 Just now, David said: Are all of those teams profitable though? I honestly don't know, but my point still stands. You surely recognise that both Rangers and Celtic would be far more attractive to big money investors than just any club who would theoretically be parachuted into the league? They both have fanbases built-in that are huge as it is, and would grow quite a bit if they were to be part of the Premiership. It'll never happen, mind you, but still. It’s about brand recognition and revenue streams, unless the club is a plaything for the owners, and as you say the brand recognition is already built in at Celtic. Maybe not so much for a ten year old club though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: It’s about brand recognition and revenue streams, unless the club is a plaything for the owners, and as you say the brand recognition is already built in at Celtic. Maybe not so much for a ten year old club though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 1 hour ago, MrK said: I don’t think there’s any correlation between size of surrounding area/attendances and success. Of the top 4 average attendances in the Premier League in 21/22, only one of them (Spurs) qualified for the Champions League and none of them have won a league title in the last 9 seasons. The prize money in the Premier League is such that ticket money is almost irrelevant anyway. And if you think Cowdenbeath or Albion Rovers’ support would only be from the immediate area if they were hosting Premier League football and suddenly turning over £200m a year then I think you’re mistaken. Infact, the teams left in Scotland that would suffer the most in lost attendances and support would probably be Rangers and Celtic. All of this is nonsense, to the point I don’t even know where to start. I’m not a fan of Rangers or Celtic, but if you honestly think their fans would start flocking to see Cowdenbeath or Albion Rovers in this bizarre scenario, I don’t know what to tell you. Rangers fans continued to support the club when they were demoted to the third division, and Celtic fans are similarly loyal. For a large number of these supporters, their lives are defined by the football club they support. In regards to area sizes/success, there’s a bit of a difference between…say…the cities of Manchester and Liverpool, and the towns of Cowdenbeath and Coatbridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrK Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 26 minutes ago, RedRooster said: All of this is nonsense, to the point I don’t even know where to start. I’m not a fan of Rangers or Celtic, but if you honestly think their fans would start flocking to see Cowdenbeath or Albion Rovers in this bizarre scenario, I don’t know what to tell you. Rangers fans continued to support the club when they were demoted to the third division, and Celtic fans are similarly loyal. For a large number of these supporters, their lives are defined by the football club they support. In regards to area sizes/success, there’s a bit of a difference between…say…the cities of Manchester and Liverpool, and the towns of Cowdenbeath and Coatbridge. I’m presenting actual facts and figures to you and you’re calling it “nonsense”. I think here ends the debate. And I don’t think Rangers and Celtic would suddenly start flocking to support Albion Rovers or Cowdenbeath. Much in the same way that Man Utd and Bolton fans didn’t start flocking to Man City in 2008. However over the next 14 years, the size of Man City supporters grows as the next generation of football fans in the area have a more successful option to associate with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, MrK said: However over the next 14 years, the size of Man City supporters grows as the next generation of football fans in the area have a more successful option to associate with. I’d say it’s more down to the out of town support that success inevitably brings. Further down the line you’ll get the family legacy aspect kicking in. If your dad was a Man Utd fan, chances are you will be too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 39 minutes ago, MrK said: I’m presenting actual facts and figures to you and you’re calling it “nonsense”. I think here ends the debate. Facts and figures that don’t necessarily back up what you’re saying. They can’t, because this is a completely speculative scenario. And you’re ignoring rather important counterpoints to make the argument that you’re trying to make - such as the populations of Cowdenbeath and Coatbridge. The example of Man City isn’t a good one either. Manchester isn’t remotely comparable to Cowdenbeath or Coatbridge, and neither were the attendances pre-takeover. The attendances for Cowdenbeath - for example - are a few hundred. I’m not even sure you’d find a conference league club pulling in as low an attendance as that. You can give them as much money as you like, you’re not going to suddenly magic that into something sustainable. Plus, how could you ever entice players to move to those clubs? I mean, fuck, there are actual Premier Division clubs who have ‘five seasons of Premier Division money’ behind them who struggle to compete. If Rangers or Celtic moved to England, they’d make marquee signings in their first season - unreasonable or not, the fans would demand it. I’m not saying they’d win the league - but they’d go in there with the attitude of having to make a good crack at it, at least some point in the following decade. You can pump as much cash as you like into Cowdenbeath and Albion Rovers, but they’re still Cowdenbeath and Albion Rovers. You could feasibly make the argument you’re trying to make with different examples - Hearts, Hibs or Aberdeen, for example; but it would still be far more challenging to build them up in the way that you suggest than it would be Rangers or Celtic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted May 30, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted May 30, 2022 I have a feeling if Celtic and Rangers played in the English league they'd have a couple of seasons bouncing from the Premier League to the Championship and back again while they got settled. I can't imagine they'd enjoy away days at Southampton and Brighton, heck even playing the London teams twice a week as the end of the season approaches. Mind you if they did find themselves in the Premier League it might entice potential foreign owners to come and start sniffing around. Another sportswashing opportunity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 I know this talk is all hypothetical anyway but why should they be in the Premier or the Championship, or anywhere in the league system? Who has to make way for them to take their place? They should start at the bottom of the pyramid but ideally, not join at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted May 30, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted May 30, 2022 23 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Who has to make way for them to take their place? Villa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members bAzTNM#1 Posted May 31, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted May 31, 2022 Rangers were getting supposedly quite a bit (not tons) of money for those crap Division 3 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonmist Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, Keith Houchen said: I know this talk is all hypothetical anyway but why should they be in the Premier or the Championship, or anywhere in the league system? Who has to make way for them to take their place? They should start at the bottom of the pyramid but ideally, not join at all. They shouldn't be, and there isn't really any reason let alone a good one for it to happen. Fans often feel like their club is looked down upon for where their team plays, I also think lots of Rangers fans have an affinity to England. @bAzTNM#1yeah still got money because they sold a shit ton of tickets against Semi pro teams. It was a time that would have been easy to make a profit but they paid McCoist £800k a year, signed players from the SPL and various other high spends to avoid risk of embarrassment of not promoting straight away. Edited May 31, 2022 by westlondonmist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members bAzTNM#1 Posted May 31, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted May 31, 2022 Ally McCoist absolute rinsed them during this period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonmist Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 9 hours ago, bAzTNM#1 said: Ally McCoist absolute rinsed them during this period. I think a lot of their fans still haven't forgiven him. I think they may hold been a bit more forgiving if he hadn't struggled against Hibs and Hearts in the championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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