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Bicurious Dad

Ashley Massaro Dead at 39

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12 minutes ago, Chris B said:

 WWE have also said in their response to the court that they were aware that she'd told people she was sexually assaulted.

Not what i meant. I was talking about how they've never admitted guilt in the matter. Still relevant, so thanks.

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54 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

The likes of Savile got away with what they did for as long as they did because, institutionally, it was permitted. Countless people either turned a blind eye to what he did, chose not to pursue allegations, or actively facilitated it - we'll never know quite to what extent and in what combination, but it's inarguable that those things occurred.

So it's not about comparing individuals to a corporation, it's about recognising that systemic abuse happens not when one person takes advantage of another, but when a wider system/institution/organisation either fails to prevent them doing so or, either proactively or through lack of action, permits them to do so.

Part of the reason people instinctively believe this is that WWE has a long history of dubious behaviour, of covering up for its employees, of exploiting vulnerable people, and of horrendous treatment of women. Vince himself has been accused of sexual assault, former employees routinely brag about sexual abuse and assault in shoot interviews under the guise of ribs or road stories, multiple former female employees have - either in interviews or through more serious legal channels - made accusations of sexual abuse and harassment during their time in WWE, Vince likely helped cover for Jimmy Snuka after Nancy Argentino's death. 

This isn't an insane one-off, unbelievable story. People believe it because it's sadly in-keeping with the culture of the company, not because it stands outside of it.

This post basically sums everything up nicely. There has been countless examples of abuse, whether sexual, physical, or general bullying. Along with the covering up, sweep it under carpet, or ‘laugh it off as a rib’ culture.

So when we look at the likelihood of an accusation, we tend to take previous behaviour in to consideration. We do it with everything, It’s how we form opinions, from having relationships with people with a ‘past’, to selecting who is running the country. We look at previous form and decide based on whether it sits well or not.

So when someone again points the finger at WWE and states that they covered up a rape, then previous form enters the equation and makes you think “shit yeah, this is pretty feasible”.

Not, “she was probably pissed because she’s famous & probably has mental health issues, so it might or might not have happened but I love the discussion, so will make things up.”

Pat is correct, whistling Skull isn’t, but we all know that so I’ll fuck off again now.

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1 minute ago, Kaz Hayashi said:

This post basically sums everything up nicely. There has been countless examples of abuse, whether sexual, physical, or general bullying. Along with the covering up, sweep it under carpet, or ‘laugh it off as a rib’ culture.

So when we look at the likelihood of an accusation, we tend to take previous behaviour in to consideration. We do it with everything, It’s how we form opinions, from having relationships with people with a ‘past’, to selecting who is running the country. We look at previous form and decide based on whether it sits well or not.

So when someone again points the finger at WWE and states that they covered up a rape, then previous form enters the equation and makes you think “shit yeah, this is pretty feasible”.

Not, “she was probably pissed because she’s famous & probably has mental health issues, so it might or might not have happened but I love the discussion, so will make things up.”

Pat is correct, whistling Skull isn’t, but we all know that so I’ll fuck off again now.

In that case, someone taking Massaro's previous behavior and such into account would also be right.  There aren't enough facts to confirm one or the other.

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3 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Good read. On that note, what do you (and y'all) think of Bryan Danielson's health scares and his current wrestling style?

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On 6/3/2019 at 3:02 PM, IANdrewDiceClay said:

No mention of the rape yet, but CNN has went all in on the CTE part of it today. This could get the ball rolling.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/06/02/health/cte-wrestling-trnd/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

 

6 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Understandably it got lost a few pages back, but it was mentioned prior to it all kicking off in this thread over the past day or so. 

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22 minutes ago, Whistling Skull said:

Good read. On that note, what do you (and y'all) think of Bryan Danielson's health scares and his current wrestling style?

I think we talk about that in the minor news thread

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The WWF 1980s was essentially a bunch of wrestlers raping women on a nightly basis, and they did nothing about that. Even a memo sent round saying "stop spiking womens drinks and fucking them" would have been nice. But they had to get the finish for No Holds Barred drafted up, so I can see why it'd be low on the priority list. "H-bombing girls" is the term used in shoot interviews, by unself aware wrestlers who think this is cool and people watching will go "what a cool guy!" If this was a story about a woman getting raped on the set of Chuckle Vision, and Paul telling her "dont worry about it, love", I'd see why you'd doubt it. But this is WWE. The Saudi friendly, Trump supporting, independent contractor but not really employers who are just the worst people you can find. A detailed story of rape, so well put together you'd think she was a horror fiction writer vs. Vince McMahon telling her rape is just "one bad experience." Its a given who you'd believe, if you ask me.

Edited by IANdrewDiceClay

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PCW did a Q&A with The Steiners (Well just Rick. Scotty was being sick in a bin backstage) a few years ago and when he got the usual 'Whats your favourite rib?' question he told a story about Mr Perfect spiking some students drinks on a plane. Keep in mind that a) this is his favourite prank and b) this is the stuff he's willing to chuckle about in front of a room full of strangers. Imagine the stuff those guys got up to that they are actually ashamed to talk about. The industry is as seedy as it gets, a billion dollar boys club. 

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6 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

I think we talk about that in the minor news thread

I'll look it up, thanks.

 

7 minutes ago, IANdrewDiceClay said:

The WWF 1980s was essentially a bunch of wrestlers raping women on a nightly basis, and they did nothing about that. Even a memo sent round saying "stop spiking womens drinks and fucking them" would have been nice. But they had to get the finish for No Holds Barred drafted up, so I can see why it'd be low on the priority list. "H-bombing girls" is the term used in shoot interviews, by unself aware wrestlers who think this is cool and people watching will go "what a cool guy!" If this was a story about a woman getting raped on the set of Chuckle Vision, and Paul telling her "dont worry about it, love", I'd see why you'd doubt it. But this is WWE. The Saudi friendly, Trump supporting, independent contractor but not really employers who are just the worst people you can find. A detailed story of rape, so well put together you'd think she was a horror fiction writer vs. Vince McMahon telling her rape is just "one bad experience." Its a given who you'd believe, if you ask me.

"Today, on a very special episode of Chuckle Vision..."  Yeah, I see what you mean. It's also a matter of the battles you pick. I used to watch a lot of UFC to stay abreast of the MMA industry, but people like Dana White treat fighters horribly and martial arts and the culture surrounding it has experienced a general decay because of it. I barely watch UFC anymore because it clashes with my view of what martial arts should be. I guess I'm a lot less picky of what pro wrestling should represent, while I've loved it since I was 5. The mind bends...

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The sad truth is, the World just isn't shocked by anything any more.

The speed at which news spreads, the pace at which it is replaced by something else, and the severity of the things that make the news has created a planet full of people who are far less outraged at stuff.

In this country, the Savile case set the bar so high that nothing that followed (Harris, Hall, Clifford etc.) was anywhere near as shocking to the average person.

I still don't think Rolf Harris got anywhere near the negative reaction he would've got had the story broke 10 years ago. It just wasn't the big deal it should've been to most people.

Harvey Weinstein was in the headlines quite a lot, but as soon as the second, third, fourth name came forward, people (quite wrongly) cared less and less.

It's really sad that the stories recounted in Ashley's affidavit will soon be forgotten, having basically been ignored by every major news outlet that probably don't deem it sensational enough.

The World is shit, basically.

Edited by scratchdj

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6 hours ago, JakeRobertsParoleOfficer said:

One has to imagine just how hard as fuck the likes of Sherri had to have been to survive and thrive in that 80s period, let alone become one of 'the boys' 

Agree 100% - for her to be, for the majority of the time, THE only woman on the road with all those guys you can only imagine the shit she had to put up with - she had to party just as hard as they all did for a start.

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I dont think Sherri had to put up with any shit in the WWF. Wrestlers have this weird loyalty to people who pay their dues, and she had done that prior to getting into the WWF. Ted Dibiase tells a story about her getting slapped around and treated like dog shit when she trained, and nobody messed with her after that. Guys like Hogan, Flair and Savage were very protective of her (rumour has it she was Hogan's road wife at one point) So I doubt she was getting any shit of the likes of Marty Jannetty or Jim Powers. She was a big star from 89 onwards.

There's one story I do recall from around 94. Madusa had just signed and someone shit in her bag for no reason. Just to be a cunt, really. And she completely no sold it and went about her business. Nobody messed with her after that. Wrestling is so fucking odd. Sunny for example sold every bit of bullying they gave her, so it continued. Its a mean spirited business, but one that has its own logic.

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