jimufctna24 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 27 minutes ago, David said: Here's a question. If GSP had come along at exactly the same time, same skillset, same look, but he was George Peters from Boise, Idaho who spoke with an American accent, is he still the same star that he is today? I don't think so. I think he'd be recognised as a good in-cage competitor (although his inability to finish opponents probably wouldn't have been as overlooked), but that's it. If he had the same endearing personality, I think he would have still been a massive star. Perhaps not as big as he was, but still one of the biggest in the game. Quote I honestly believe that if Rory had emerged in 2004 when GSP did, instead of 2010, then he would have been that Canadian superstar. Disagree. Rory was never that likeable. The lines would have been blurred had he been alongside Hughes; instead of the clear hero/villain dynamic that we got. I should stress that if GSP had been from Boise, then there would have been even fewer shades of grey. Those "USA" chants for Hughes would have been non-existent. GSP would have been the Welterweight version of Couture, just younger, better looking, and perhaps even more endearing. I also doubt whether Canada would have taken Rory into their hearts like they did GSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 19, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 19, 2017 18 minutes ago, David said: I honestly believe that if Rory had emerged in 2004 when GSP did, instead of 2010, then he would have been that Canadian superstar. Bocek and Hominick weren't the stars to push the Canadian agenda foward because, if we're honest, they weren't all that good, were they? Throw in the fact that both of them look less than photogenic as well. I'm not saying that GSP's promotional success is purely down to him being Canadian, but it was a really large part of it. He was a dominant champion, a good looking lad, and he represented a market that the UFC wanted to break into. As far as charisma goes, he has no more of it than most other fighters. His press conferences look awkward, he can't insult anyone without sounding silly, and he's about as threatening as Urijah Faber on a bad hair day. Hominick ended up being one of Aldo's most dangerous opponents, with an exciting style. He was pretty damn good, and, as wand said, his game only suffered after that match, when his coach died. Bocek wasn't a scrub either, one of the best BJJ guys to come out of Canada. Sure, neither guy was champion, but Hominick was least not all that far off; one could argue he might have been champion had someone as stellar as Aldo not been around at the time. Either way, if being Canadian was as big a proportion of GSP's success as you say, they would've been much bigger stars than they are. And they were around when GSP was. As for GSP's charisma, there are different kinds of charisma, not just "tough guy" aura. He has that "likable nice guy" thing about him, that makes people get behind him without saying all that much. A bit like Ricky Steamboat. I don't think being able to insult someone is necessarily a yardstick of charisma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted October 19, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 19, 2017 Dave be trolling, yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted October 19, 2017 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 19, 2017 GSP is the kind of likeable where if your sister or daughter brought him home (not MY daughter, she's 3 FFS!) and introduced him as her new boyfriend, you'd be relieved. Christ, even in that video where he's telling Bisping to fuck off, his likability shines through when after the confrontation he realises the little boy is there and he tries to joke around with him because he looks scared. You can tell he's just a really good guy. He's almost too nice. There's got to be some dark secret lurking there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Quote If he had the same endearing personality, I think he would have still been a massive star. Perhaps not as big as he was, but still one of the biggest in the game. The game is littered with nice guys who have endearing personalities. That doesn't make you a massive star. Quote Disagree. Rory was never that likeable. The lines would have been blurred had he been alongside Hughes; instead of the clear hero/villain dynamic that we got. I should stress that if GSP had been from Boise, then there would have been even fewer shades of grey. Those "USA" chants for Hughes would have been non-existent. GSP would have been the Welterweight version of Couture, just younger, better looking, and perhaps even more endearing. I also doubt whether Canada would have taken Rory into their hearts like they did GSP. You're basically placing the same emphasis on him being "endearing" that I'm placing on his nationality. I'm placing that emphasis on his nationality because of the timing, the fact that the company was looking to expand into a new territory at the time, and they needed someone who was good in the cage and who had a good look to fit the bill. MacDonald could easily have been that guy, vanquishing the American challengers and playing the respectful fighter who lets his fists and feet do the talking. Quote Hominick ended up being one of Aldo's most dangerous opponents, with an exciting style. He was pretty damn good, and, as wand said, his game only suffered after that match, when his coach died. Bocek wasn't a scrub either, one of the best BJJ guys to come out of Canada. Sure, neither guy was champion, but Hominick was least not all that far off; one could argue he might have been champion had someone as stellar as Aldo not been around at the time. Come on, you're grasping a bit there, Carbomb. I never said either guy was terrible, but at no point are either ever mentioned when a "remember that great fighter?" conversation occurs. Quote Either way, if being Canadian was as big a proportion of GSP's success as you say, they would've been much bigger stars than they are. And they were around when GSP was. Why? Just because a certain factor plays a huge part in the success of a fighter or athlete doesn't mean that any other person with that same quality can match them, does it? There were other factors at play, I'm not saying there wasn't, but his nationality played a huge part when combined with the fact that the UFC were looking to expand into new regions. Quote As for GSP's charisma, there are different kinds of charisma, not just "tough guy" aura. He has that "likable nice guy" thing about him, that makes people get behind him without saying all that much. A bit like Ricky Steamboat. I don't think being able to insult someone is necessarily a yardstick of charisma. Funny you should mention Steamboat, as he's a terrific pro wrestling example. Steamboat though, while always respected for his in-ring ability and his nice guy qualities is never mentioned when any "real greats" discussion is taking place, is he? He's essentially GSP without the "right place, right time" Canada/company expansion factor. I believe that without that one huge factor GSP would be the Steamboat of MMA. Quote Dave be trolling, yo. No, he isn't. It's an interesting discussion, don't you think? I mean, at the end of the day we'll never know who is right or wrong, because we're discussing factors that cross over a decade of the sport. It was a different time back then. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, because it's not a discussion anyone can be wrong in. It's just opinions, and I think these kinds of discussions are good fun when we have a lull before a big show or we're just feeling a bit bored. There's been plenty of good points made, and i've certainly come out the other end considering things that I've read here that hadn't occurred to me previously. Hopefully others feel the same, yo. *apart from my reference to Fitch's hair and eyes, that was a bit of a troll* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 19, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 19, 2017 2 hours ago, David said: Come on, you're grasping a bit there, Carbomb. I never said either guy was terrible, but at no point are either ever mentioned when a "remember that great fighter?" conversation occurs. Why? Just because a certain factor plays a huge part in the success of a fighter or athlete doesn't mean that any other person with that same quality can match them, does it? There were other factors at play, I'm not saying there wasn't, but his nationality played a huge part when combined with the fact that the UFC were looking to expand into new regions. Funny you should mention Steamboat, as he's a terrific pro wrestling example. Steamboat though, while always respected for his in-ring ability and his nice guy qualities is never mentioned when any "real greats" discussion is taking place, is he? He's essentially GSP without the "right place, right time" Canada/company expansion factor. I believe that without that one huge factor GSP would be the Steamboat of MMA. No, he isn't. It's an interesting discussion, don't you think? I mean, at the end of the day we'll never know who is right or wrong, because we're discussing factors that cross over a decade of the sport. It was a different time back then. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, because it's not a discussion anyone can be wrong in. It's just opinions, and I think these kinds of discussions are good fun when we have a lull before a big show or we're just feeling a bit bored. There's been plenty of good points made, and i've certainly come out the other end considering things that I've read here that hadn't occurred to me previously. Hopefully others feel the same, yo. *apart from my reference to Fitch's hair and eyes, that was a bit of a troll* I still don't know how to chop up posts. "Not that good" to me implied that you thought they weren't much cop. My misunderstanding, apologies. I think this is starting to boil down to miscommunication. I've been getting the impression that the degree to which you think GSP's nationality played a part was overwhelmingly the main part of it. Clearly I've been misunderstanding you. Steamboat is considered one of the real greats, and is discussed commensurately; I don't agree that he's not listed as one during wrestling talk. He's one of the first to be raised, in my experience; very few convos about legends and greatest matches goes by without Savage/Steamboat or Steamboat/Flair being mentioned. FWIW, I don't think you're trolling, and I don't think your opinions are invalid or illogical; I just don't agree with some of them. I've said before I think you're a good poster with plenty to contribute, and I stand by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Quote "Not that good" to me implied that you thought they weren't much cop. My misunderstanding, apologies. They were obviously decent enough fighters, but in the context of this discussion they aren't up there, are they? As far as star power, being big names in the sports etc. Quote I think this is starting to boil down to miscommunication. I've been getting the impression that the degree to which you think GSP's nationality played a part was overwhelmingly the main part of it. Clearly I've been misunderstanding you. I think it was a major part of it, his "special ingredient" if you will. It was this that, at the time, and coupled with his other skills, set him apart from the likes of the guys you mentioned. But without his outstanding ability as a fighter it wouldn't have worked. Quote Steamboat is considered one of the real greats, and is discussed commensurately; I don't agree that he's not listed as one during wrestling talk. He's one of the first to be raised, in my experience; very few convos about legends and greatest matches goes by without Savage/Steamboat or Steamboat/Flair being mentioned. You think so? Honestly? In discussions where people are throwing names like The Rock, Hogan, Flair, Savage, Austin and so on around you're gonna say "what about Steamboat?" Quote FWIW, I don't think you're trolling, and I don't think your opinions are invalid or illogical; I just don't agree with some of them. I've said before I think you're a good poster with plenty to contribute, and I stand by that. And I appreciate that, I really do. I'd be quite disappointed if the regular contributors in this section looked on me as a simple troll. Are some of my posts sarcastic? Are they written with that weird Glaswegian sense of humour that most folk don't get? Do I occasionally throw some subjects around to instigate conversation and debate? Sure. I'm never really looking to troll anyone. And you're allowed to not agree. Like I said, that's what makes these discussions what they are. No one is really correct, or really wrong. It's just an exchange of views, no one is trying to convince anyone to change their opinions. It's like debating who the GOAT is, it's all subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mole Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Just on looks and personality alone, GSP is a much easier sell, GSP is a handsome guy with a nice guy up beat attitude and Rory is a kind of slow geeky looking hipster (at least he was for a while, I've not really seen him wearing pink cardigans in Bellator) they are both great fighters, it's like comparing pre-murder Benoit to Bret Hart, both aren't great at promos but at least Bret spoke like a real human, not some robot like Benoit did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TildeGuy~! Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Cummins has pulled out with an injury, OSP has stepped in to take on Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 15 hours ago, David said: The game is littered with nice guys who have endearing personalities. That doesn't make you a massive star. GSP had a unique personality though, especially for his time. How many fighters were as passive and polite as him? His voice was also very distinctive, and unlike anyone else's from that time. He was a complete darling, and almost impossible to hate. 15 hours ago, David said: MacDonald could easily have been that guy, vanquishing the American challengers and playing the respectful fighter who lets his fists and feet do the talking. I think he would have been perceived as slightly creepy and dull. There was always something a little bit off about him. How could the audience really take to him? He didn't lay himself bare like GSP did on occasion, and didn't have the same charm to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted October 20, 2017 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 20, 2017 1 hour ago, jimufctna24 said: GSP. He was a complete darling. So...who wins, Cody or TJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 20, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 20, 2017 Hey, you're the one called "wand", ya fairy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted October 20, 2017 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 20, 2017 I own it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 35 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: So...who wins, Cody or TJ? I am a right fairy Wand. You don't have to tell me. Oh, and I slightly favour Cory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted October 20, 2017 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 20, 2017 I wasn't massively convinced about Cody before the Cruz fight. I knew he was really good when he took out Thomas Almeida (who I rate) in a round. But I wasn't sure he could hang at the top level. His performance against Cruz blew me away though. Even the people who were picking him to score the upset, what he did was beyond anyone's expectations. TJ's a great fighter himself, and his fight with Cruz was close. But the Cody who beat Cruz, if we see that version or better then I can't see TJ winning. I guess the x-factor could be Cody's temper. It hasn't gotten the better of him during a fight yet but this is probably the most bad blood he's ever had with an opponent. We saw on TUF that he's a bit of a headcase at times when he's around TJ. I think he wins though. I'm thinking a late TKO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.