UFC 217: Bisping vs St Pierre

[David]

Georges is up there in terms of selling his fights? He doesn't actually do all that much to sell them really, does he? His presser speeches are usually pretty cookie-cutter, and he almost never disrespects anyone.

His biggest selling point is his in-cage ability and his nationality. 

[jimufctna24]

There's a bit more to GSP than that. His appearance on TUF 4 certainly helped his appeal. With his broken English and placid demeanour, it was difficult not to like him. It also helped that his chief rival was Matt Hughes; one of the best villains in MMA history. He was the perfect "blue eye" in many ways (I hope that's the right term)

There was no one else really like him back then (or now, other than perhaps JDS). GSP, Chuck, Ortiz, Hughes, Penn and Lesnar were all very different characters to one another. That's part of the problem with the current "manufacturing fights" dynamic. It seems possible that everyone is going to follow the same blueprint, making things very samey (as noted on the previous page)

[ColinBollocks]

34 minutes ago, David said:

Georges is up there in terms of selling his fights? He doesn't actually do all that much to sell them really, does he? His presser speeches are usually pretty cookie-cutter, and he almost never disrespects anyone.

His biggest selling point is his in-cage ability and his nationality. 

You miss his trick. He's the ultimate white meat babyface; the hero. He's basically a better version of Bret Hart. He doesn't need to trash talk, when he's got someone who'll gladly play the antagonist.

As I posted, GSP has pointed out repeatedly he and his opponent were just playing it up to sell the fight. In terms of buyrates, his formula speaks for itself.

To just say "He doesn't actually do all that much to sell them really, does he?" under sells what he is doing. GSP is as boss as anyone at this. It's why a McGregor match would be absolutely incredible - they'll be perfect playing off each other and you've got the whole Canada v Ireland thing.

In-cage ability and nationality are, of course, vital (like they are with Conor), but you need to have something about you to get a bloody nation on your side (like Conor).

[David]

9 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said:

There's a bit more to GSP than that. His appearance on TUF 4 certainly helped his appeal. With his broken English and placid demeanour, it was difficult not to like him. It also helped that his chief rival was Matt Hughes; one of the best villains in MMA history. He was the perfect "blue eye" in many ways (I hope that's the right term)

There was no one else really like him back then (or now, other than perhaps JDS). GSP, Chuck, Ortiz, Hughes, Penn and Lesnar were all very different characters to one another. That's part of the problem with the current "manufacturing fights" dynamic. It seems possible that everyone is going to follow the same blueprint, making things very samey (as noted on the previous page)

I assumed when you mentioned him being second only to McG that you were meaning today? I doubt his appearance on TUF over 10 years ago really resonates with many in the audience at the moment.

His main positive has always been his Canadian appeal. He was huge in winning over that market, and it's quite hard to understand just now big he was (and maybe still is?) over there unless you saw it firsthand.

Walking into your run of the mill sportswear chain in a mall in Toronto to see the huge posters of him and suchlike, in the same way as we do over here with the likes of Beckham, Rooney, Bolt etc, was surreal back in the day.

He was a legit sports star in Canada, and seeing the response he got at the weekend when he walked out in front of a sold out Bell Center in Montreal before the Leafs played the Canadians was pretty awesome.

[jimufctna24]

5 minutes ago, David said:

I assumed when you mentioned him being second only to McG that you were meaning today? I doubt his appearance on TUF over 10 years ago really resonates with many in the audience at the moment.

His main positive has always been his Canadian appeal. He was huge in winning over that market, and it's quite hard to understand just now big he was (and maybe still is?) over there unless you saw it firsthand.

Walking into your run of the mill sportswear chain in a mall in Toronto to see the huge posters of him and suchlike, in the same way as we do over here with the likes of Beckham, Rooney, Bolt etc, was surreal back in the day.

He was a legit sports star in Canada, and seeing the response he got at the weekend when he walked out in front of a sold out Bell Center in Montreal before the Leafs played the Canadians was pretty awesome.

The bolded comment was not made by me. 

It's true that his appearance on TUF 4 doesn't have much relevance to his popularity today, but it played a role in making him one of MMA's biggest stars initially. Yes, his nationality also played a role. However, there was a bit more to GSP's popularity than that, as I established in my initial post (and as ColinBollocks also underlined just above)

[David]

18 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said:

The bolded comment was not made by me. 

It's true that his appearance on TUF 4 doesn't have much relevance to his popularity today, but it played a role in making him one of MMA's biggest stars initially. Yes, his nationality also played a role. However, there was a bit more to GSP's popularity than that, as I established in my initial post (and as ColinBollocks also underlined just above)

Apologies for that, a lot of the profiles look the same on my phone.

I'm not so sure that I agree to be honest. I think that if GSP came along today, in an era where the UFC's international credentials are already stellar, he wouldn't be that big of a deal. In fact, I daresay he'd be looked at as one of those infuriating fighters who wins fights in a somewhat "boring" fashion and who "doesn't know how to play the game" when he invariably gives Joe Rogan the stock answer of "I'll fight anyone the UFC put in front of me" to the question of who he wants next.

His popularity is based almost entirely on being a "right place, right time" kind of fighter I think. 

He came along at a time when the company was looking to make that first real international push into Canada, and where they needed a face to front that push. Who better than the good looking young athlete that GSP was at the time? He was the complete antithesis of the tattooed head, mohawked, flame-shorts types who populated the UFC at that time.

If GSP was from Boise, Idaho and didn't have the French accent and novelty of being a good looking Canadian athlete with an ability inside the cage I doubt he'd have become the star that he did. He'd have been a name in the sport of course, because he was a great fighter, but his nationality and look made him who he was. More his nationality than anything else, because the expansion was a major issue back then.

Within two years of winning the welterweight title he was headlining the company's first ever foray into Canada, and while two years may seem like a long time today, it also covered the period of time when GSP lost to Matt Serra unexpectedly. I reckon the Canadian event would have come quicker had he dispatched Serra as he'd been expected to.

Regardless, I don't think he really does much to "sell" a fight. He just sits there being all Canadian, really. He doesn't say or do anything that a lot of other fighters don't do in the build-up to a fight.

[Carbomb]

18 minutes ago, David said:

Regardless, I don't think he really does much to "sell" a fight. He just sits there being all Canadian, really. He doesn't say or do anything that a lot of other fighters don't do in the build-up to a fight.

Not saying you're wrong, it's just a funny image in my mind, like he sits there, exuding some kind of "Canadian feeling", or "Canadiation".

But surely if nationality was such a big part of it, guys like Rory MacDonald would've been superstars in Canada, or Mark Hominick or Mark Bocek? I think it's a combination of GSP's ability, his natural charisma, and the fact he was such a dominant champ that make it more than his nationality, though that is a major factor.

 

[jimufctna24]

19 minutes ago, David said:

His popularity is based almost entirely on being a "right place, right time" kind of fighter I think. 

He came along at a time when the company was looking to make that first real international push into Canada, and where they needed a face to front that push. Who better than the good looking young athlete that GSP was at the time? He was the complete antithesis of the tattooed head, mohawked, flame-shorts types who populated the UFC at that time.

If GSP was from Boise, Idaho and didn't have the French accent and novelty of being a good looking Canadian athlete with an ability inside the cage I doubt he'd have become the star that he did. He'd have been a name in the sport of course, because he was a great fighter, but his nationality and look made him who he was. More his nationality than anything else, because the expansion was a major issue back then.

I think we more or less agree here. 

You're correct that he came along at a time where the UFC were looking to expand, and their brand was growing. He also came along at a time where he had the perfect foil (Hughes), and a TV show to promote their rivalry. Later on, the UFC did a superb job of hyping up GSP's fights with Hardy and Penn. 

Yes, his exceptional ability was part of the package, but so was his endearing personality, and good looks. As you said, he wasn't your stereotypical "fighter". I would argue that while GSP was exceptionally popular in Canada - that his appeal went beyond that. 

Whether he would be as big today is another matter. I kind of agree he wouldn't be as big. It's a very different landscape today. 

 

[ColinBollocks]

Of course there is an element of "right place, right time". Everyone from Rousey to Liddell are in that discussion, but you also have to be the right person at the right time. If you think GSP is a dull Canadian, then cool, but it's undeniable his ability to convince people to buy his PPVs, seeing as he's one of the UFC's most consistently excellent draws.

GSP also knows what he's doing, in regards to his hero schtick. It's why he pretty much begged for that Diaz fight. He knew he was going to make a 'fuck ton' off someone as polarising as Nick Diaz.

What he does to sell a fight is be the bloke you want to see take down a Koscheck or Dan Hardy. He's the hero to their villain. It's very simple and he's brilliant at it.

[David]

1 hour ago, Carbomb said:

Not saying you're wrong, it's just a funny image in my mind, like he sits there, exuding some kind of "Canadian feeling", or "Canadiation".

But surely if nationality was such a big part of it, guys like Rory MacDonald would've been superstars in Canada, or Mark Hominick or Mark Bocek? I think it's a combination of GSP's ability, his natural charisma, and the fact he was such a dominant champ that make it more than his nationality, though that is a major factor.

I honestly believe that if Rory had emerged in 2004 when GSP did, instead of 2010, then he would have been that Canadian superstar. 

Bocek and Hominick weren't the stars to push the Canadian agenda foward because, if we're honest, they weren't all that good, were they? Throw in the fact that both of them look less than photogenic as well.

I'm not saying that GSP's promotional success is purely down to him being Canadian, but it was a really large part of it. 

He was a dominant champion, a good looking lad, and he represented a market that the UFC wanted to break into. As far as charisma goes, he has no more of it than most other fighters. His press conferences look awkward, he can't insult anyone without sounding silly, and he's about as threatening as Urijah Faber on a bad hair day.

1 hour ago, jimufctna24 said:

I think we more or less agree here. 

You're correct that he came along at a time where the UFC were looking to expand, and their brand was growing. He also came along at a time where he had the perfect foil (Hughes), and a TV show to promote their rivalry. Later on, the UFC did a superb job of hyping up GSP's fights with Hardy and Penn. 

Yes, his exceptional ability was part of the package, but so was his endearing personality, and good looks. As you said, he wasn't your stereotypical "fighter". I would argue that while GSP was exceptionally popular in Canada - that his appeal went beyond that. 

Whether he would be as big today is another matter. I kind of agree he wouldn't be as big. It's a very different landscape today. 

Here's a question. If GSP had come along at exactly the same time, same skillset, same look, but he was George Peters from Boise, Idaho who spoke with an American accent, is he still the same star that he is today?

I don't think so. I think he'd be recognised as a good in-cage competitor (although his inability to finish opponents probably wouldn't have been as overlooked), but that's it. 

Jon Fitch with better hair and without the rapey eyes. Great at what he does, beating people via decision, winning fights. 

41 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

Of course there is an element of "right place, right time". Everyone from Rousey to Liddell are in that discussion, but you also have to be the right person at the right time. If you think GSP is a dull Canadian, then cool, but it's undeniable his ability to convince people to buy his PPVs, seeing as he's one of the UFC's most consistently excellent draws.

GSP also knows what he's doing, in regards to his hero schtick. It's why he pretty much begged for that Diaz fight. He knew he was going to make a 'fuck ton' off someone as polarising as Nick Diaz.

What he does to sell a fight is be the bloke you want to see take down a Koscheck or Dan Hardy. He's the hero to their villain. It's very simple and he's brilliant at it.

Sorry mate, but I don't think I can buy into the idea that GSP's persona is some sort of marketing masterplan from him that helped him get to the top. Did he know that fighting Nick Diaz would make him a lot of money? Of course he did, but that's not down to him knowing he could play the hero to Diaz bully tactics. He knew that Diaz would draw attention by being the bumbling, rage-suppressing car crash that he always is. GSP essentially just sat there and let Diaz make the headlines. That's not difficult to do. 

He came along at a time when there wasn't many "proper" athletes like him around. He looked like a mainstream athlete before the UFC had mainstream athletes, back in the day when you were either a square jawed wrestler or a WWE character with a mohawk or flames on your shorts.

It was most definitely a case of right place, right time. He was good looking, Canadian, and he could win fights. I'm not buying into him being some sort of charismatic savant or someone who secretly played a "character" the way McG does today or whatever.

Like I said, if he came along today he'd be Rory MacDonald.

[wandshogun09]

GSP telling Bisping to "fuck off, man" is still the best thing about this build up to me. And for that alone I'm glad this fight was made.

[David]

Just now, wandshogun09 said:

GSP telling Bisping to "fuck off, man" is still the best thing about this build up to me. And for that alone I'm glad this fight was made.

He sounded like it was literally the first time he'd ever uttered the phrase "fuck off", didn't he? As though he'd get in trouble from his mum for saying it.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, it's magnificent. It's amused me way more than it should've.

I now want "Fuck off, man" by GSP as my doorbell. That'd give the trick or treaters a shock next week. 

[ColinBollocks]

Again, David, we're just going to have to agree to disagree, as we're just going to spend the next several hours disagreeing with each others point, while repeating ourselves to death. Essentially, I think GSP is a brilliant babyface, quite clearly capable of drawing in the fans (hence all the big buyrates), while you think he's a dull Canadian that is right good at fighting and the sexiest man alive circa 2007-13 (hence all the big buyrates).

And, aye, that "fuck off, man" was truly brilliant.

[David]

1 minute ago, ColinBollocks said:

Again, David, we're just going to have to agree to disagree, as we're just going to spend the next several hours disagreeing with each others point, while repeating ourselves to death. Essentially, I think GSP is a brilliant babyface, quite clearly capable of drawing in the fans (hence all the big buyrates), while you think he's a dull Canadian that is right good at fighting and the sexiest man alive circa 2007-13 (hence all the big buyrates).

I didn't say he was dull, I just said that he was no more charismatic than many other fighters who weren't lucky enough to be in the game at the time he was with the right passport.

If he surfaces today, he's Rory MacDonald.