UFC 216: Ferguson vs Lee

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28 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

I hope he makes 20 flyweight title defences.

As a fan, I'd be completely on board with this. I don't care to see him out of the division at all. It'd be understandable if he said, "I've done what I've wanted to, if I can get a big payday I'll move up, make some money and then get out", but I'd love to see him stick at 125lb until he felt his body was telling him otherwise. People may run down the division, but that happens almost every time you have a dominant champ, and, personally, the opponent I'm most interested in seeing him face right now is time.

Anderson was in his late 30's when he was eventually stopped, and you'd probably say age played a decent part in that, both in terms of his own body slowing down and the division evolving around him. Ronda's end seems mostly due to the evolution of the women around her, but was also probably helped along somewhat by the divided focus that came with her stardom. Jon Jones' tale ended in personal self-destruction. And even the end of Georges' reign at welterweight, I would say, came because the toll of so many, increasingly difficult fights made him feel he needed to step away. There are so many things that can happen to a fighter over time, and I'm much more interested to see what the natural end of DJ's story is than I am to see him step up and fight a TJ, Cody or Cruz.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, dominant UFC champions are almost becoming a thing of the past now. Apart from Mighty Mouse and Joanna Jedrzejczyk the titles have all been switching pretty regularly over the last couple of years. If DJ goes up and loses to say Garbrandt at 135, yeah it doesn't effect his title at 125. But it takes away some of that special aura he's built up. And if he's the best of all-time like they're saying he is then fighters should be coming to his division to try to knock him off his throne. He shouldn't have to be chasing them. Being the 'greatest of all-time' should give you some perks, shouldn't it? You don't say to a fighter 'Hey, you're the GOAT and P4P king but you have to make all the concessions, you have to go up in weight but your paycheque stays the same'. 

And yeah, before anyone corrects me, I know they weren't asking DJ to go up to fight Dillashaw and that Dillashaw was going to drop to 125. I'm just saying I'm not with this logic that DJ should have to move up in weight or that he's stupidly missing out on some megabucks fight at bantamweight. That's pure fantasy, those fights don't exist. 

[Guy Bifkin]

That was a very enjoyable show. Lando vs Bobby Green was a great fight. I'm not a huge fan of Bobby Green but it was good to see him get his mojo back. Lando doesn't know how to have a bad fight, unfortunately I think his lack of defence will hamper him troubling the higher echelons of the division. 

Mighty Mouse was outstanding. That submission finish was breathtaking, one of my favourite finishes ever. Fair fucks to Ray Borg who hung in there and put up more of a scrap than some more fashionable names have against Johnson. Having said that, I'd like to see what DJ can do against a Cruz, a Dillashaw or a Cody now.

Ferguson vs Lee delivered an excellent main event. Massive credit to Kevin Lee fighting with a staph infection and putting up a great fight but Ferguson is just a bit too good everywhere for him right now. Tony Ferguson's win streak at Lightweight is as good as there is in the UFC right now. For me, we've got to see him against Khabib. With what he can do off his back it makes for a very intriguing fight. 

[the_mole]

I don't think  DJ needs to move up or anything but he can step up and fight Bantamweights from time to time, say a rematch with Cruz or whoever and maybe give guys at 125 a bit more time to developed but keeping him busy, Anderson Silva stepped up and fought Light heavyweights sometimes on short notice during his reign, I would also say it's a shame Travis Lutter failed to make weight that time as it really should have been a title defense against the Michael Jordan of BJJ as he made weight for that fight.

[ColinBollocks]

Dana said that Ferguson is next in line for McGregor. Of course, that can change if McGregor says so.

McGregor better work on his cardio because unless he somehow manages to overcome Ferguson's crazy chin and end it early, he's in for another night of making 2003 Scott Steiner look like a cardio machine.

[Carbomb]

5 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

Yeah, dominant UFC champions are almost becoming a thing of the past now. Apart from Mighty Mouse and Joanna Jedrzejczyk the titles have all been switching pretty regularly over the last couple of years. If DJ goes up and loses to say Garbrandt at 135, yeah it doesn't effect his title at 125. But it takes away some of that special aura he's built up. And if he's the best of all-time like they're saying he is then fighters should be coming to his division to try to knock him off his throne. He shouldn't have to be chasing them. Being the 'greatest of all-time' should give you some perks, shouldn't it? You don't say to a fighter 'Hey, you're the GOAT and P4P king but you have to make all the concessions, you have to go up in weight but your paycheque stays the same'. 

And yeah, before anyone corrects me, I know they weren't asking DJ to go up to fight Dillashaw and that Dillashaw was going to drop to 125. I'm just saying I'm not with this logic that DJ should have to move up in weight or that he's stupidly missing out on some megabucks fight at bantamweight. That's pure fantasy, those fights don't exist. 

Exactly that. DJ's earned that right, easily. Given that it's established now that the industry believes that the market decides what a champion is paid, there has to be some perk to being called the champ and the best in the world, if pay isn't assumed to be one of them. Otherwise, you're just slogging your guts out to fight for the right to lug about a heavy chunk of metal with no upside.

I figured eventually that Pier Six Brawler must have meant Cruz, upon reflection - there's no way he could've meant Diaz. The only thing about Diaz that weighs 135 is his weed bag.

[OzExile]

I felt a bit for Kevin Lee who was clearly struggling, fair play to him for not making any excuses to Rogan after.  Can't say I was as impressed with Ferguson as I was when he beat RDA, but it's a big W all the same. Despite his awkwardness and reach, would still back McGregor to pick him off to be honest. It wasn't a bad call out from Ferguson at all, but I just can't see anything other than Diaz for Conor as that feud is money. Ferguson, as good as he is, just doesn't quite have that connection with  the fans. 

Poor Walt Harris, by the way. I hope his pay cheque was swollen. 

[jimufctna24]

Just caught up on bits and bobs from this card. The finish to the Mighty Mouse vs Borg fight was mental. 

The Flyweight division has always left me feeling cold.  I'm not sure why really, it just doesn't hit home with me. However, I don't think the competition Mighty Mouse faces is inferior to the competition that Anderson faced at 185lbs during his reign. Are Belfort, Sonnen, Hendo, Maia better Middleweights than Cejudo, Dodson, and Benavidez are Flyweights? I am not so sure.You could make a case either way. It's very subjective, and hard to measure really. 

I will say that there was always a blueprint to beat Anderson, as Sonnen and Hendo demonstrated. I'm not convinced there is one to beat Mighty Mouse. I haven't seen all of his recent fights, but the last time I remember him being in any sort of trouble was against Dodson, some 5 years ago. Like GSP in his pomp, it seems like Johnson has all the bases covered. 

I would be interested in seeing Mighty Mouse take a fight at 135lbs. It's always fun to see a dominant Champion move around in weight, and face fresh challenges. Anderson did it during his reign at Middleweight. I always wanted GSP and Jones to do something similar. 

[Carbomb]

Personally, I think the only fight Mouse should move up for is a title shot at Garbrandt. His dominance at 125 surely earns him that. I'd like to see him eventually take fights with all three "Big Bantams" in Garbrandt, Dillashaw, and Cruz, but as mentioned before, I think he's earned the right to say that Cruz and Dillashaw should come down to 125 to face him (if they can, obviously), and not the other way around.

Of those two, Cruz is probably the most interesting; he's the only guy still active Mouse ever lost to, and because that was at BW, the promotional aspect of a rematch can play on the intrigue of whether or not he can come down to the Big Mouse's Yard and do the same thing. If DJ wins, there's a natural catchweight rubber match at 130 right there.

[lambyUK]

1 minute ago, Carbomb said:

Personally, I think the only fight Mouse should move up for is a title shot at Garbrandt. His dominance at 125 surely earns him that. I'd like to see him eventually take fights with all three "Big Bantams" in Garbrandt, Dillashaw, and Cruz, but as mentioned before, I think he's earned the right to say that Cruz and Dillashaw should come down to 125 to face him (if they can, obviously), and not the other way around.

Of those two, Cruz is probably the most interesting; he's the only guy still active Mouse ever lost to, and because that was at BW, the promotional aspect of a rematch can play on the intrigue of whether or not he can come down to the Big Mouse's Yard and do the same thing. If DJ wins, there's a natural catchweight rubber match at 130 right there.

My major problem with those guys coming down is the potential shit storm it causes the division. The major reason why I had a problem with TJ coming to 125llbs was he never intended to stay there. 

It was just for a one off 'money' fight so to speak, and even then, I doubt it would generate that much anyway. What if TJ won, just instantly drop the title? Those guys are just far too big for 125llbs to be cutting more than the one time.

DJ going up and potentially winning wouldn't be an issue as making that weight and staying at that weight wouldn't be an issue. 

[Carbomb]

True, but DJ going up and losing is not exactly an attractive prospect, and whilst it's not a given, it's a lot more likely, given that we know that he's beatable at 135, that that's the reason he moved down in the first place, and it's several times more likely if he faces someone from the top three, especially as that includes the one active guy who's beaten him before, and a guy who's beaten him.

As wand said, DJ should only be bothered about moving up if there's more money for him, and a reassurance from the company that his fights will be promoted properly, with the weight of their media machine being thrown behind them. Being champion, and a ridiculously dominant, invincible-looking one at that, should earn him the right to say "no" if he gets anything less than that in return for being asked to fight above what is clearly his natural and optimal weight. 

Mighty Mouse is not just a flyweight, he is the flyweight, so should be rewarded commensurately for his efforts.

[ColinBollocks]

That finish has surely done Mighty Mouse untold favours, in terms of boosting his profile? The amount of randoms that have mentioned it to me over the past day is mental, when you consider DJ wasn't even discussed within his family.

[wandshogun09]

3 hours ago, jimufctna24 said:

Like GSP in his pomp, it seems like Johnson has all the bases covered. 

Yeah, I think I mentioned in the opening post of the 217 thread, that the night GSP schooled Thiago Alves at UFC 100 was probably the closest thing I'd ever seen to an 'unbeatable fighter' in MMA. Mighty Mouse on Saturday night (well in most of his fights actually but especially this one) was something similar. 

I love the relationship he has with Matt Hume as well. It's the perfect storm of the right coach and the right fighter at the right time. I don't know if there's ever been a better coach/fighter combination who fit together so well. 

28 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

That finish has surely done Mighty Mouse untold favours, in terms of boosting his profile? The amount of randoms that have mentioned it to me over the past day is mental, when you consider DJ wasn't even discussed within his family.

You'd hope so. I mean, remember Anderson Silva wasn't really seen a massive star until he heeled Belfort's chin off. Sometimes a fighter will be awesome for ages but it'll take one spectacular finish to wake people up to it and make them really appreciate it. Hopefully this does something like the Belfort KO did for Anderson. It probably won't though sadly. People will talk about it for a day or two then move on to the next big knockout or the latest McGregor quote. The fact that he doesn't talk or carry himself like a badass 24/7 and the fact that he's half the height of his wife, for some that's just not exciting enough. Personally I think it's pretty fucking cool that the best fighter on the planet is a 5'3" ninja midget. 

[Chunk]

I'm of the opposite opinion on Mcgregor / Ferguson. I think Ferguson is easily hit and Mcgregor has enough power to finish him.

[wandshogun09]

That's what makes it such a great fight. Ferguson does get tagged a fair bit in fights. So McGregor could whack him. Especially in the first couple of rounds. But I still think Ferguson is a really difficult fight for Conor. Of all the guys at 155, who's a harder challenge for McGregor, bar maybe Khabib? I don't think there's any one area where McGregor would be 'safe' with Ferguson. I'd say McGregor is a bit better on the feet but Ferguson is dangerous there himself, mixes up his attacks, he's awkward, lanky etc. On the ground I think Ferguson gives Conor fits. He's got cardio for days, which is another thing McGregor could struggle with if the fight went long. And despite being hittable he's tough as shit, durable and there's no quit in him. You only have to look at this Kevin Lee fight to see Ferguson has mad heart. He was mounted and getting beat down in the first and turned it around. Lando bounced him all around the cage as well and he came back to stop him. He's a twat and his interviews are cheesy as hell but he brings a lot of problems to Conor's door IMO. I'd go as far as to say if Conor doesn't get him out of there within 2, Ferguson probably wins that fight. And even the hittable thing, it's not like McGregor is some master of defence himself. There was the 2 Diaz fights, obviously. But he was getting clipped a lot in the Mendes fight as well and Mendes' boxing is very basic AND he's got little T-Rex arms. 

We'll see. Hopefully it happens because it's a really interesting one. I'd love it if you turn out to be right and McGregor batters him but I don't think it'll be plain sailing at all.