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Favourites that you soured on...


Liam O'Rourke

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So for this week's podcast, at the suggestion of our own tiger_rick (and subtitled "The Bloom Is Off The Rose"), we're looking at wrestlers that you once held in high regard but soured on over time - whether something about their act changed, whether they regressed as performers, or whether you feel you started to see through them and they weren't actually as good as you once thought.

 

If you could name one wrestler or act that sums this up for you throughout history, who would you pick and WHY?

 

As always, the best contributions will be read on the show and you'll be credited accordingly. So who fell from grace in your eyes?

 

EDIT - Our show discussing Favourites That You Soured On, featuring many of your contributions, is now online and available to listen to at the following link: http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/web/5f2atq/SCG_Radio_101_-_The_Bloom_Is_Off_The_Rose.mp3
 

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I would have to go with Mick Foley (i know this will be a popular choice. In the late 90s to around 2004 the man could do no wrong for me. He felt like our guy, the fan though hard work big bumps and cheap puns felt like one of us. Then international showdown happened never meet your idols.a money grabbing rude man, still i put that down to a bad day. Come universal uproar he is slagging off power slam for knocking him and acting the cock. His run in TNA was horrible. And he is the worst gm of all and proper creepy with the women. Just fuck off mick

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Look no further than the Foley Is Crud thread.

 

But also, Dolph Ziggler. There's a guy who was putting on great matches, deserved a big push as world champion and then he became dull. I don't know if he was slowing down, not getting better or became disillusioned with wrestling and his position, but he just seemed like he wasn't putting the effort in anymore. I stopped caring about him and would've been happy to never see him again. Which was a shame as he was one of my favourites and I was big supporter of his push. But he might be turning that around again after that match at No Mercy with The Miz. Halfway through I wanted him to win and not leave. I hope he keeps up this level of interest and emotional investment and not carry on the way he has the past couple of years. I hope this isn't a one off and he becomes stale again. And he needs to stay away from comedy.

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I considered RVD for this - used to be one of my favourites in WWE, but after it was pointed out how samey his matches were becoming, and with the fabled TNA Stink attached to him in more recent years, I've gone off him a bit, still like him, but not as much - but … but...

 

There's only one real answer for this, and it's Mick Foley.

 

(taken from my post on the first page of 'Foley Is Crud' on here, which you could spend an entire show reading comments from and make Old Man Jones' head explode)

 

Foley was one of my absolute favourites from the time a friend lent me Have A Nice Day so I could read the Hell In A Cell chapter. He was an all-time favourite. I bought both autobiographies, and both novels. I genuinely missed him not being on the shows after Vince fired him in 2000. I was thrilled every time he came back, whether that was for something big like the Orton feud or that time in 2001 where he was just there to plug Foley Is Good. I even pre-ordered Hardcore Diaries.

Then I read it.

Then I gave it to the charity shop.

That book really disillusioned me on Foley. Not just the Melina stuff, which undoubtedly crossed the line to Creepy Fucker, but the voice and the style that had seemed so personable and affable up to then (on page and on screen) had started to come across as whiny and put-upon.

He was less and less the Foley I loved on TV too. The Flair feud basically became two out of shape guys bleeding at each other, and then turned into an angle about Melina. And didn't he also wrestle Carlito or Coach or someone around this time? Then he went to TNA and I found I didn't care about him at all, had no wish to watch one of his matches, rolled my eyes when I heard he was their Champion, and gave up a quarter of a way through the sample chapter of Countdown To Lockdown. I read Tietam Brown TWICE. I fucking imported Scooter. I even finished Hardcore Diaries, and I couldn't get through the sample chapter of this one!

I don't want to blame the Internet as well, but every time he does a blog or a Facebook post or a tweet I go off him a little bit more. I want to like him again. But he doesn't half make it hard for that to happen. Is it Foley that's changed? Or was he always like this and his on-screen-on-page persona hid the whiny, entitled, Melina perv within?

By all accounts his first stand up tour was great. It was round the corner from me and tickets were available. But I didn't go. Teenage me would have been right in the pre-order, VIP, front row, whatever, I'd have taken your arm off for a chance to hear Mick Foley speak in person... And to MEET him after? He could have all my money!  But when it actually happened, post Hardcore Diaries, post TNA, post diminishing return after diminishing return... I wasn't bothered. One of my one-time all-time favourites, right round the corner, and I wasn't bothered. And that makes me sad. 

 

Bloody Melina.

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Careful HG, he might deactivate his UKFF account in a huff after reading that.
 

My choice is Rey Mysterio. He was ‘my guy’ from his debut in 2002; I loved his matches, his colourful outfits and the way he was so watchable whether it was in singles or in a tag team – it’s a bit of a cliché but the Smackdown Six were amazing while they were around and Rey did more than most to give that period the praise it deserves.
 

Then November 2005 came, Eddie Guerrero died and seemingly overnight Rey was elevated to a position way beyond his station and was set on the path to a world title. During this time there are numerous moments where I remember watching Rey and feeling sicker than Kieran probably does after a night on the shite:
 

-          The Royal Rumble entrance in the Cadilac

-          Robbing Eddie’s moves

-          Robbing Eddie’s mannerisms

-          Any time Chavo and Vicky interacted with him

-          Getting a title shot because Teddy Long feels sorry for him after No Way Out

-          Hammy acting all the way through this phase, but in particular upon receiving news of said title shot
 

He then won a 9 minute match, during which he was booed mercifully, to start his title reign in the worst possible way. I normally get a cob on when fans don’t cheer who they’re “supposed to”, but I couldn’t blame the Chicago crowd at Wrestlemania 22 – Rey was a proper sap. He then lost non-title matches to The Great Khali to further demonstrate his wankness and look like an idiot. Mercifully he lost the belt to King Booker and everyone could forget about the whole thing.
 

To his credit, he managed to redeem himself in the years since and I don’t hate him anymore, but 2005/06 Rey can get in the sea for how I was made to feel about someone who was once my absolute favourite. 

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Seeing as you've said wrestler or act I'm going with JR. Sweet fucking Jesus. The sound of Jim Ross' voice used to encompass a lot of what the Attitude Era meant to me, he essentially provided the soundtrack to an era and sold me on matches, angles and wrestlers that lesser commentators couldn't have. Now I can't help but view him as a sad faced, bitter, barbeque sauce salesman. I can't stand to even look at the man these days. And this isn't anything to do with the palsy before anyone starts. The calls he made are still important, that's not the issue and I do feel sympathetic in the way WWE have treated him over the years but it doesn't get him off from being a bellend of huge proportions.

I think that back in the day I was less exposed to the business so in my eyes (or ears) he could do no wrong. He's a bit like Foley in that the internet has exposed him for the tosser he is and makes me think that he was probably a mardy, cowboy hat wearing twat all along.

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Seeing as you've said wrestler or act I'm going with JR. Sweet fucking Jesus. The sound of Jim Ross' voice used to encompass a lot of what the Attitude Era meant to me, he essentially provided the soundtrack to an era and sold me on matches, angles and wrestlers that lesser commentators couldn't have. Now I can't help but view him as a sad faced, bitter, barbeque sauce salesman. I can't stand to even look at the man these days. And this isn't anything to do with the palsy before anyone starts. The calls he made are still important, that's not the issue and I do feel sympathetic in the way WWE have treated him over the years but it doesn't get him off from being a bellend of huge proportions.

I think that back in the day I was less exposed to the business so in my eyes (or ears) he could do no wrong. He's a bit like Foley in that the internet has exposed him for the tosser he is and makes me think that he was probably a mardy, cowboy hat wearing twat all along.

100% agree with you on JR. Like Foley, the Internet has made me despise someone I once liked and respected. Can't stand listening to that bitter old man. Speaking of both a wrestler and commentator, Fuck JBL. Never liked him. Don't know how some people did and still do. Awful at everything. Average heel promos when he was champ.

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Kane. Glen Jacobs.

 

Boy what a first impression, I remember watching Badd Blood thinking "HE RIPPED A FUCKING STEEL DOOR OFF", then he went on a path of rage and had a cracking feud with the Undertaker culminating in one of my favourite big man slug fests at Mania 14. Then after that the stuff with Austin was good and he got the strap at the Kind Of The Ring in a respectable first blood match that unfortunately had to follow Mankind/Taker. Now, back then I was fucking bouncing off the walls when Austin won it back the next night, but in hindsight surely Kane could have held that thing for a few months and let Austin chase, I always loved Austin on the chase, a rebel with a cause more so than as champ.

 

Anyway, after that and in to the 2000's was when I soured on him, Katie Vick, his unmasking, the only thing I popped for was when he set that fat hillbilly JR on fire. To put a cap on it, lately whenever I hear him announced for a match or even hear that music I break out in hives, I simply cannot stand to see him, it is go away heat on an unimaginable scale. Sure he is a safe worker and performs "ok" but I want more, we should all want more, it's 2016 and he's still poncing around in that mask, the sooner he buggers off to the insurance game the better, I want a WWE without Kane.

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I'm assuming Chris Benoit just gets his own wing for this.

 

Jake Roberts - I used to think he was great. Loved him as a kid. When I first became a real "smart" wanker, I watched his shoot interviews and convinced myself that he was the smartest guy in the business. I'm not alone on that one. But as I watched more and more stuff, particularly his hideous run in WCW, the shine went right off Jake. I don't think he ever had a good match. Was he a genius worker? Or just a lazy bastard? I used to think the former and now I think the latter. He did the bare minimum and I'm not convinced he even had a second gear. Sure he understood how to get a rise out of the audience and perhaps they went home happy but years and years of watching superlative workers has made me realise how utterly bland Jake was.

 

Another pet peeve is the DDT. We've had nearly two decades of people moaning that it isn't a finisher anymore. It's just a move. Here's the thing. It was never a finisher. Because Jake only hit the thing on jobbers. When did he ever beat anyone else with it, save for Martel in the blindfold match and those Survivor Series tags. Jake's promos were main event. But it's easy to see why he wasn't a draw. He never beat anyone and he never had a great match. That's not the be all and end all. But its the difference between him and the real superstars.

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Zack Ryder, forgetting his Major Brothers/Edgeheads phases i started to really like Ryder during the WWECW run with him as a Heel with his half tights/half pants attire which made him stand out a little ,during his Long Island Iced Z Youtube series he came across as very charasmatic and managed to actually get himself over to the point that the WWE started to again feature him on TV where his mini push culminated in a fairly memorable US Title win (and how many of those have there been outside of WCW!) , the moment i began to sour on him was when WWE decided to cut his bollocks off, have him watch his on screen girlfriend Eve Torres play tonsil hockey with John Cena before Kane strapped him to a wheelchair and pushed him off the stage (imagine the New age outlaws/Cactus & chainsaw angle if it was written by children), woeful stuff that made Ryder look like a worthless loser, I've hated him ever since and audibly shouted "what the fuck" when he won the IC title at this years wrestlemania, and yes i was watching it alone at the time

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Ric Flair

 

After his beautiful send off at WrestleMania 24, he just pissed all over the hard work HBK & others had put into his retirement angle. I cringe at his TNA run (except his segment with Jay Lethal) with him wrestling around in his under wear and bleeding like a cunt. Him screwing over ROH and costing JR his job can also be added to other reasons why I soured on the man who I once considered to be one of the all time greats.

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Does the WWE as a whole count?

 

OK, Chris Jericho for me I think. Its not that I actively dislike him, but having enjoyed his rise to the midcard in WCW and brilliant heel run with Ralphus, I found everything he did in the WWE to be pretty tedious in comparison. I found his Nick Bockwinkel rip-off act to be particularly shit.

In fairness i don't really watch these days but his tattoos look daft. 

 

Its sometimes hard to like Bret Hart when he goes off on one of his rants too.

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OK, Chris Jericho for me I think. Its not that I actively dislike him, but having enjoyed his rise to the midcard in WCW and brilliant heel run with Ralphus, I found everything he did in the WWE to be pretty tedious in comparison. I found his Nick Bockwinkel rip-off act to be particularly shit.

In fairness i don't really watch these days but his tattoos look daft. 

 

Its sometimes hard to like Bret Hart when he goes off on one of his rants too.

 

Shit tattoos aside he's pretty much the best thing on any wrestling show in the world right now so has been completely redeemed in my eyes. 

 

 

 

Anyway, after that and in to the 2000's was when I soured on him, Katie Vick, his unmasking, the only thing I popped for was when he set that fat hillbilly JR on fire. To put a cap on it, lately whenever I hear him announced for a match or even hear that music I break out in hives, I simply cannot stand to see him, it is go away heat on an unimaginable scale. Sure he is a safe worker and performs "ok" but I want more, we should all want more, it's 2016 and he's still poncing around in that mask, the sooner he buggers off to the insurance game the better, I want a WWE without Kane.

 

I think Team Hell No's run saves Kane for me. 

 

 

Mine has to be RVD. Worhsipped him in ECW and in early WWE days. But then as mentioned he just got a bit samey. I still popped for him winning the belt off Cena at One Night Stand (the atmosphere around that whole match is second only to Punk MITB) but I'd probably already got a little bored of him before that. Then the title reign went nowhere. Then he got canned. Then he openly couldn't be arsed in TNA. Then came back to WWE and worked his old style in slow motion. uggh. 

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