Paid Members Maverick Posted March 4, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted March 4, 2015 It's too bad we gotta get old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Arch Stanton Posted March 4, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted March 4, 2015 WWE have to find a way to combine the way they tell stories in NXT with the demands of hours and hours of first run TV on the main shows. That's a difficult thing to do. It certainly is, which is why I think using the success of NXT as a stick to beat Vince with is particularly harsh. Triple H said as much in his interview with Steve Austin, it's a different product for a narrower demographic and they don't have the demands that come with putting out a live 3 hour show on a major TV network. That's not to say that I am defending Vince- I think his own interview with Austin confirmed my fears about him being past it. All these years without a competitor breathing down his neck or for him to chase have seen him dry up creatively. I have some sympathy though, it's a tough job for him. The business is built on money-drawing superstars and in the last decade he's had very few new faces come through that have shown the potential to be the man to take over from Cena in carrying the company. Despite what a lot of fans think, it's not all on Vince to make stars, history has shown that it just doesn't work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 My impression is that he doesnt view wrestling as wrestling anymore. He hired a bunch of movie and TV writers who have no understanding of what the audience want. Problem being that wrestling isn't a sitcom. Vince's heart is on money not wrestling. Yes he has lost the ability to see the future because he lives on his own little WWE bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undercover elephant Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 In a nutshell the only way the current Raw and Smackdown product changes is when Vince passes away, and Kevin Dunn is politely told to fuck right off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Vince's heart is on money not wrestling. Yeah, I hate that about him now. He never used to care about money, he just wanted the Meltzer snowflakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallingSpots Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I'm not sure that Vinnie Mac is out of touch as much as he is unrelenting in pushing his vision of what he wants his company and its image to look like. With that said though, I would imagine going public has massively changed what Vince can and cannot do compared to the early days. I'm not sure how in touch key stakeholders like advertisers and network people will be, yet I'm sure that they will have a say (or at least an influence) in what the company direction needs to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinc Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 There's a strong argument that Vince has never been in touch. Wrestling has almost always felt anachronistic compared to the rest of popular culture. Were gay people getting called fags by sympathetic characters anywhere else on TV in 1997? The company like to talk about how relevant the Attitude era was to the rest of the culture, but it wasn't much more than the same heels and faces wrestling they'd put out since day dot presented with the grungey aesthetic that had prevaled in US pop culture for the entire decade up to that point. They were years late to the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted March 5, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted March 5, 2015 The company like to talk about how relevant the Attitude era was to the rest of the culture, but it wasn't much more than the same heels and faces wrestling they'd put out since day dot presented with the grungey aesthetic that had prevaled in US pop culture for the entire decade up to that point. They were years late to the party. I think you're being unfair here. The reason the Attitude era was so big was because it was on point. You had "outrages"/"edgy" shows like Howard Stern, Sopranos, Jerry Springer and South Park doing the business, and in music the likes of NIN and Marilyn Manson were big acts. WWF arrived at the party at exactly the right time (although they outstayed their welcome). Also your point about the use of the word fag is very much looking at it with 2015 eyes. I'm not excusing it, but Howard Stern, for example, would say all sorts of homophobic and racist stuff (content that would probably get him the sack today), but his show was an incredible success during the 90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I think it’s the fact that for 9 months of the year they play it relatively safe with very few peaks and many troughs – no thinking outside the box; keep it as we know it and have put up with it with years and years. Then pick things up from Royal Rumble to WrestleMania then they gradually start to get lazier and lazier again soon after, followed by one month of hard work for SummerSlam then things ticking along with a half arsed build up for Survivor Series and then repeat again in January. It’s a combination of laziness, weariness and sticking to a tried and tested formula because they’ve been at this settled/content stage for many years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Sergio Mendacious Posted March 5, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted March 5, 2015 Anytime something really shit is happening on screen, Mrs. Diarrhea will say "I bet this was Vince's idea". Not saying I agree 100% with her, but I agree about 80% these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Really Big Shoe Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Right now, I'd have to say yes. But historically, I think Vince struck gold back in the day when he pushed Hulk to the moon and did the tie-in's with celebs, MTV & the whole 'Rock & Wrestling' thing got over. It was visionary at the time because Vince Jr took wrestling out of the smokey halls & arenas and made pro-wrestling into mainstream entertainment. Saturday Night's Main Event was a huge hit on NBC too. But now, I think after the success of the Attitude Era and him winning the war against Ted Turner & WCW, I don't know if he had any real motivation left to improve the WWE or take it to the next level. I wonder if Hunter wasn't involved in NXT etc. where WWE would be right now and the direction they would be going in & if it would even exist. I have a feeling once Vince steps down/retires and Trips is in charge, you'll probably see wrestling go full circle and it being about the 'wrestling' aspect again. Because if Vince was in charge of NXT it would be full of the cookie cutter/stereotypical bodybuilder types. But now in NXT you have Kenta, Adrian Neville, Prince Devitt and other talent like that coming through the ranks. It's when they come up into the main roster (which I assume is still Vince McMahon's realm) when character stagnate & languish in the mid-card like Adam Rose, The Ascension & Emma have done. Only Rusev & Paige are probably the most successful of the NXT "graduates" and even then you don't know whether they will fall into the mid-card mix if Cena beats Rusev at WrestleMania and they put the emphasis back on AJ again against the Bellas or they bring up Charlotte Flair from NXT as the top Diva babyface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I think it's a bit iffy when people judge Vince by comparing Raw or whatever to NXT when the latter is by far the easier to manage. You can take risks with the latter, they can't really do that anymore with the former. I think that's the issue really. There's no reason to take risks and plenty of reasons they shouldn't. It'll be the same for whoever ends up in that position. I mean yeah, Vince is by all reports out of date and has been forever. It doesn't seem like he's had much of an inkling about popular culture in forever. And you kinda feel there's trends they maybe should have capitalised on more. I think they could play on the superhero craze a lot more and sack off any of the last vestiges of the reality era balderdash. But I doubt the latter was a Vince idea anyway. The bigger issue is whether Vince gives as much of a toss now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecian Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I think the answer to this one is 'sort of'. Vince is trying to cater the product to one type of audience member, the kids who like the larger-than-life superhero characters, your Cenas, your Batistas, your Reigns'. Guys like me, who've been watching wrestling for around 25 years don't give a crap how someone looks, I much prefer the wrestling, the storytellers, the psychology - something that Reigns hasn't quite clicked yet. The guys that I think should be pushed are not the guys that my 9 year old neighbour thinks should be the top guy. NXT appeals because it's catered towards me. The main event stories on Raw are aimed at the younger audience, and the other two and a half hours are just filler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handspants Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I think the answer to this one is 'sort of'. Vince is trying to cater the product to one type of audience member, the kids who like the larger-than-life superhero characters, your Cenas, your Batistas, your Reigns'. Guys like me, who've been watching wrestling for around 25 years don't give a crap how someone looks, I much prefer the wrestling, the storytellers, the psychology - something that Reigns hasn't quite clicked yet. The guys that I think should be pushed are not the guys that my 9 year old neighbour thinks should be the top guy. NXT appeals because it's catered towards me. The main event stories on Raw are aimed at the younger audience, and the other two and a half hours are just filler. You mention that you 'much prefer the wrestling, the storytellers, the psychology', yet reckon the lads at the top of the card don't appeal to you? They've quite clearly got there for a reason, and that is that they excel at what you've said. Wrestling is not The Shawshank Redemption. The story should be, this person you like has been wronged, now watch him get his redemption (OK, maybe it is Shawshank). So yeah, basically, John Cena is Tim Robbins and Daniel Bryan is Morgan Freeman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members quote the raven Posted March 6, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted March 6, 2015 Vince hasnt been in touch for a long time, but does it matter is the point? Was vince watching springer and listening to stern in 98? probably not. What he did have was wrestlers that spoke up about how they wanted to be used, writers that where in touch (all be russo). Now it seems like a number of guys wont speak up for themselves and the writers just chun out the same shit week after week. Vince is in a bubble, a number of wrestlers have said it, its who is in the bubble with him that is the problem. Im trying to avoid "PG suxs" as its not the issue NXT is pg and its probably my favorite wrestling show in the last 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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