Paid Members Duke Posted November 14, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted November 14, 2015 Bunch of entitled millenials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Linus Posted November 14, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted November 14, 2015 Big Benny HG in the Tetsujin thread...    WILL THERE BE A BAR?Yes I'm in! WILL THERE BE A RAFFLE?Absolutly not. I'm out.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted November 18, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 I never dreamed I'd enter this thread to endorse something Rockwell said about wrestling, but this needs to be highlighted because it's a sublime analogy. It was in the "cash-in" thread, however..... Â Realistically it's not going anywhere though, is it? That's what they do when they have a good idea: milk it to fucking death, and then continue to yank on the dead teets for several years more wondering why there's no milk coming out. Â ...... you can apply this to any idea, gimmick, drawing card, essentially anything positive that the company has stumbled into for virtually the last 30 years. It's up there with the (IIRC) Hogan monologue about ride the horse until it can't run, shoot it and eat the carcass, but the added symbolism of the WWE braintrust looking at each other bemused at the lack of milk and shaking their heads plaintively, really hits the nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted November 18, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraxSpago Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 This question about working with the old guard has provided me with my answer for that "what can be done to fix the current product" question ; you can't fix it to a satisfactory degree now, that's locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. All you can do now is build for the future. If you're excluding Cena because they can't keep going back to him and Lesnar because "part time champion" was a one off they don't have the depth to do again, you've got a scenario where your main event scene is populated almost exclusively by guys that haven't been prepared properly (or at all) to be accepted in the main event - and Sheamus. I say "and Sheamus" because he at least has a couple of runs with the title, if people can remember that long ago, and even though they were short and unremarkable runs like Del Rio had. Â Historically, succession planning has pulled off to a decent level, or at least followed through on, so SOMEONE was in place for when the incumbents were moved on. Guys were made ready for the main event scene by being positioned against the existing main eventers and allowed to look competitive or beat them, before they were actually put into the pole position. By the time Steve Austin was put into the box seat, he's spent the previous 12 months being put in the ring with Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker and being made to look strong. Bret could only beat him by flash pin and the WrestleMania 13 stoppage (the best any wrestler has ever been allowed to look in defeat, ever) and in their final PPV meeting at In Your House, Bret needed interference to save him from a defeat. Shawn was not able to beat him. Taker could only beat him due to shenanigans. Austin was made to look on their level and after Canadian Stampede, nobody was permitted to pin him on TV. Steve Austin was made to look a winner, and once he was moved into the main event spot, he was never out of it. Â When John Cena and Batista were put into the main event scene, they each had significant leg-ups from the stars of the time. By the time John Cena was put into main events, he'd worked competitive PPV matches with Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle and Taker, and just beaten Angle cleanly on PPV the month before getting the belt. In the next 12 months he was working with Kurt again and Shawn Michaels before putting properly over by Hunter at Mania 22, during which time they'd transitioned into using HIM to elevate Edge. Batista was organically moved into the spot by crowd reaction and the storyline in which the fans accepted that he could beat Triple H, so all it took was a really strong showing in the Elimination Chamber then the Rumble win, and he was made. The fact he then beat Hunter in two subsequent occasions (including decisively in the Cell) further established dominance, then (regardless of my opinion of him) the guy with the longest WWE title reign in ten years to his name, JBL, was twatted by Dave, further embellishing his credentials. As soon as he was back from injury he was back smashing anyone below him on the food chain and reinserted straight back into the main event scene, going for the Big Gold Belt and later winning THE title a couple of times. Once Cena and Batista were made into main eventers, they never looked back. They got it right with Orton second time round because by the time he finally got back to the peak in 2007 and won the WWE title, he'd already been in the ring with (and beating) guys like Undertaker and Kurt Angle, and even though he had to tread water for a while, you knew that by the time he was actually made champion, people were ready to accept it. And by and large, he's never really looked back either. He hasn't always been ON TOP, but he's been directly underneath and credible back in that position as champion whenever they've needed him. Â Today, it's too late for anyone to get the rub properly from Cena, Orton, Batista or even Hunter. They got away with it with Daniel Bryan, miraculously and in spite of themselves, because over a short amount of time he was competing with AND BEATING all four of them. People believed in him, but he's been the exception. Nobody else has truly benefited from a run with Batista, Cena or Orton because of the holding pattern that emerged with how they have treated people lower down the ladder. Think of your Kofi Kingston, who was allowed to beat Orton in a Survivors match but was back to being a scrub once Orton put him in his place month later, or your regular pattern of how they think Cena should be used, from Barratt to Miz to Del Rio to Ziggler to Wyatt to Owens - your potential new star is allowed to win a token match over Cena, loses the feud in the end, then goes straight back into the midcard to carry on feuding with your other midcarders and three months later perception of where they are goes right back to what it was before they were pointed at John Cena. This is partially because there's nowhere else to go - Steve Austin was able to run with Bret, Shawn and Taker before he stood atop the mountain. Mick Foley had Taker, Austin and Rocky to build him. They didn't act while they had the hot hand - you only needed a couple of guys to have decent runs with Batista, Orton and Cena while all three were the brightest shining stars and they'd have, by this point, established main event stars to help establish Owens, Wyatt, Rusev, Ambrose and Reigns. Of course, they've been a bit hamstrung by Edge retiring and Punk leaving in a huff, but they've trod water ever since and half arsed a bunch of other attempts to make starts of Miz and Swagger then getting bored and giving up, trying to get Del Rio and Ziggler over as main eventers feuding them with each other over the secondary World title... there's a litany of examples. Your anamoly was CM Punk, who had all the stars line up for him - working with Cena, his contract expiring and the freedom to work it into a storyline, the climactic show being in Chicago, and an enormous fanbase of giddy dorks behind him. As I say - total anamoly. Â In a nutshell, what I'm getting at, is it's 1992. Reigns is going to be Bret. He doesn't have Hogan or Warrior to give him a leg up. He's got to work with the Shawns and Razors who aren't really main eventers yet, and we're going to struggle for anything that looks like a proper main event for a while unless they panic and put Hogan back in (By Hogan, I either mean "Hogan as metaphor for Cena" or my preferred choice - ACTUAL Hogan). They've got to hope they stumble into a Yokozuna, or just persevere with Roman in the knowledge that in the future, he'll become established through sheer consistency, and eventually you might get someone come through with him like Shawn did with Bret. Ambrose, perhaps. The present's fucked, start thinking future. Pick your direction, go with it, and stick with it. Â Great post from Air Raid in the Raw thread, some great points in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members mim731 Posted November 25, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted November 25, 2015 I was just coming in to nominate Air Raid's post, absolutely nails the current issues for me. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undefeated Steak Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 +1 for Raid's post. Sums it all up perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted November 25, 2015 Moderators Share Posted November 25, 2015 Yeah, there's some decent stuff in general in that conversation but that one stands out particularly. Â Sadly only the WWE-bashing conversations get me involved in on topic discussion these days, it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted November 25, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted November 25, 2015 Yeah, superb post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted November 25, 2015 Author Awards Moderator Share Posted November 25, 2015 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallicks Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted November 28, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted November 28, 2015 +1 Â Yup, some spot on points, especially like the last paragraph, perfectly sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted November 30, 2015 Author Awards Moderator Share Posted November 30, 2015 Super one from Bill in 'legit tough guys': Â Â Â Isn't the answer to this Haku? Tough guy from Tonga Removed a funky man's eye Now he sells Prius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted December 1, 2015 Moderators Share Posted December 1, 2015 Haha. Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Sergio Mendacious Posted December 1, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted December 1, 2015 A long post doesn't necessarily mean a good post, but if it's coming from Air Raid, it's probably fantastic — his post in the Fixing the WWF in 1995 thread is a great example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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