westlondonmist Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Kushida might be my favourite worker going at the minute, I find his matches fascinating and I'm not even sure exactly why. His look aswel, kids wearing the gilet, he seems mega over right now. He is awesome and seems to never have a bad match, if it is not fantastic you can be dissapointed. However to be fair he does have good wrestlers to work with in New Japan also. His matches with Bushi and Liger are 2 of my favourite this year. I also think he looks cool, how can someone look cool with a gilet on? It makes no sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam O'Rourke Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Watched the match a second time last night. Upon review, I noticed a few additional things that I found interesting.  When the spectacular nature of the highspots is removed once you’ve already seen it for the first time previously, the flaws of the match stand out a lot more. Ospreay’s selling is bloody awful, there’s no other way to really say it. His facial expressions are hokey and his body language isn’t dramatic at all. Ricochet is only a little better on the selling front, and his facial expressions are pretty awful too, probably one of the reasons I prefer him in Lucha Underground.  Will’s Britishness is endearing at times. The “Oh you bastard” and screaming “Fucking hell!” on a submission was amusing. But screaming “Pip pip cheerio motherfucker” before his elbow was cringeworthy to the utmost degree.  Not a single move in the match means anything in the next sequence, and there is no tying things together to tell any kind of story. It’s a completely superficial experience. You can watch it and be amazed. Once the amazement wears off, there’s no soul to it whatsoever.  Interesting to note that the match didn’t get nearly the buzz in Japan it has elsewhere, because in Japan it’s just another match. While I enjoyed it the first time despite its flaws, I really soured on a rewatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambulance Chaser Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) Will Ospreay is a disgrace to Wrestling and anybody that has ever laced boots. Learn to throw a fucking working punch and sell without dying before you jump on a trampoline and learn 45 different variations of the moonsault. I hate him, I hate his face, I hate is potty mouth swearing for the sake of swearing, I hate the fact he STANDS UP when selling. He can fuck off out of New Japan. Edited June 2, 2016 by Ambulance Chaser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTXRussomark Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I checked this out because every bloody podcast I've listened to this week had talked about it. Hilariously shit. Just the next evolution of the shit Lynn/RVD matches from the 90's and various clones that followed. Osprey looks like a shit Christian and sells like he's working at Butlins. Ricochet actually has a pretty decent look about him though. Hadn't seen either of them before, definitely won't be going out of my way to see them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 The Lynn/RVD comparison is spot on. That opening sequence wasn't even as good as the Bruce Lee inspired sequence from the Low Ki/Amazing Red match from ROH that used to be shown on the Wrestling Channel over a decade ago. Anyone else remember that? Probably just  me  I actually found the match to be quite meh. Certainly you could find flippy shit just as good in Dragon Gate.  I thought Ospreay's hokey overselling was actually the highlight of the match for me. Bit silly perhaps but the guy's got charisma in the ring, that I had never noticed watching him live, which could be harnessed into something very entertaining. As long as he doesn't spend to much time around Kenny Omega  The most disturbing thing for me was the crowd. "This is awesome"!? I know Korakuen is about as smarky as it gets in Japan, but by their standards they were going total Full Sail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonmist Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I actually only got round to watching the match last night, mainly because of the fuss. I didn't really enjoy the match all that much. I like my spots but that match was taking the piss. It looked silly at times. I think I would have enjoyed watching it if I was at the show but it is a match I would not care if I never saw again. As others have said it did not even look as if it could be real (although we know results and spots are preplanned, I am one who believes it should not be so obvious). I think when you put 2 people like Ospeary and Ricochet in a ring together that is what you will get. It wasn't a bad match but it just isn't the MOTY that people like Csonka have made it out to be. At times I found the vocals by Ospreay funny and others cringe worthy. Ospreay looks far better when with someone like Okada, Scurll, Kushida and AJ who can do some spots and take spots but not be too flippy also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Both guys need to stay in Japan and learn how to work like AJ did. Now he's the best in the world. Not to say either guy is capable of being that good but they've both certainly got something to work with. Just needs to be moulded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted June 3, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted June 3, 2016 AJ didn't just learn to work in NJPW, though. He'd spent a few years learning in TNA from the likes of Flair, Hogan, Sting, etc. Judging from the sound of things, it seems like Japan gave him that extra finish he needed to really shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted June 3, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted June 3, 2016 AJ was already fantastic before he went to Japan. I don't think he got any better, he was already one of the best in the world. Japan just washed off that TNA stink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted June 3, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted June 3, 2016 Agreed, AJ was already capable of outstanding matches. What New Japan DID give him was his motivation back, and some of the best wrestlers of a generation to compete against. He shone brighter in New Japan than he had for years because of those factors, he didn't have to "learn" anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofSports Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Watched the match a second time last night. Upon review, I noticed a few additional things that I found interesting.  When the spectacular nature of the highspots is removed once you’ve already seen it for the first time previously, the flaws of the match stand out a lot more. Largely agreed. I cluster-error'd. Firstly trying to comment on a match I hadn't yet seen, followed by an appraisal based on the 1st viewing. It's still 'fun', but does contain more than its fair share of nonsense & the selling or lack of, as I alluded to previously, was actually more criminal than I thought 1st time around. Should have stuck to my guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 AJ didn't just learn to work in NJPW, though. He'd spent a few years learning in TNA from the likes of Flair, Hogan, Sting, etc. Judging from the sound of things, it seems like Japan gave him that extra finish he needed to really shine. Think we are giving Hogan, Flair and Sting way too much credit here. Styles was having great matches with Joe, Daniels, American Dragon, Paul London, Abyss etc way before the Hogan and Flair showed up. He fine tuned his skills in New Japan but would have been just as good had he gone to the WWE 3 years earlier. Thankfully, their a lot more open minded now than they where then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted June 3, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted June 3, 2016 Both guys need to stay in Japan and learn how to work like AJ did. Now he's the best in the world. Not to say either guy is capable of being that good but they've both certainly got something to work with. Just needs to be moulded. Imagine thinking Ricochet doesn't know how to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofSports Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) Both guys need to stay in Japan and learn how to work like AJ did. Now he's the best in the world. Not to say either guy is capable of being that good but they've both certainly got something to work with. Just needs to be moulded. I don't imagine they're interested. Can you tell lads like that? They evidently think they've redefined wrestling & dumbass crowds reacting the way that one did are only gonna encourage them to continue in exactly the same vein. Ricochet's worked for DG for ages hasn't he? Can't even bear to watch that mindless shit. If you've been a pro for a decade plus & still don't understand selling, what hope? Edited June 3, 2016 by KingofSports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted June 4, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted June 4, 2016 Â AJ didn't just learn to work in NJPW, though. He'd spent a few years learning in TNA from the likes of Flair, Hogan, Sting, etc. Judging from the sound of things, it seems like Japan gave him that extra finish he needed to really shine.Think we are giving Hogan, Flair and Sting way too much credit here. Styles was having great matches with Joe, Daniels, American Dragon, Paul London, Abyss etc way before the Hogan and Flair showed up. He fine tuned his skills in New Japan but would have been just as good had he gone to the WWE 3 years earlier. Thankfully, their a lot more open minded now than they where then. Sorry, can't agree there. Most of the ones you mention were spot-monkeys at the time, who hadn't yet learned to pace matches or sell. They probably enabled AJ to improve his athleticism and technical ability, but it would've been the likes of Angle, Christian, Flair, Hogan and Sting who'd have given him the advice he needed to tone it down and tell a story in his matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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