Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted April 23, 2014 Author Paid Members Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) I'd put Bret up there. His fall from grace is definitely on par. In 1998 I thought Foley was the nicest person on earth and Bret was the greatest family man. Years of constant moaning has done me in on the pair of them. Its like, get over it lads? Bret Hart constantly needs to hate and has absolutely destroyed a legacy he could have had, and always wanted, but is now the bloke in the front row who waves at WrestleMania. I look and think "Bret complained to the point where people stopped caring". If he'd have returned in 2002 in front of the Toronto crowd, that fan base would have went mental. If he'd have returned in 2005, they'd have still been into him. Waiting 13 years and returning to a fan base who didn't really remember you was so ill timed. People just didnt give a shit in 2010. Seeing him wrestle in jeans and avoiding contact was so ridiculous. He should have swallowed his pride and came back years before. Â Foley is just a tight bastard without a shred of pride, who is obviously seen as no better than Hacksaw Duggan if you watch how they position him. Foley could have done the Jerry Lawler role. He could have been on TV for years as a commentator and would have became apart of the furniture and saved his body. But no. Vince shouted at him and Foley ended up falling off high places on PPVs watched by 6000 people in TNA instead (because the money was better in the short term). Foley is a guy they really cant promote even if they wanted to either, because most of his matches are screen capped on the office wall of the Wellness Centre like those "if you have a cough for more than 3 weeks ..." posters at the doctors. Â Superstar Graham was a massive star in the 70s and 80s. As was Bruno. But we wouldn't have known that when we were watching WrestleMania VI. Wrestling doesn't stand still for people moaning on blogs. People find new heroes and stop caring about the old ones. Edited April 23, 2014 by IANdrewDiceClay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Astro Hollywood Posted April 23, 2014 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2014 Brilliant post, and yeah, Bret's a great call for fallen idols. In the late 90s, the argument was always "Who was best, Bret or Shawn?!" so maybe Shawn coming back and not even rendering the argument a moot point, but making it silly that such a question was asked, didn't help as far as his in-ring legacy. Ten years ago, Bret's name constantly cropped up in discussion of Best Ever, but can you imagine anyone saying that now? It's probably half that his stuff didn't hold up, and half people realising "Wait... this is all self-obsessed carney shit" every time he opened his mouth, and they just stopped buying into it. Â Like with psychic mediums, or the editing on reality shows, the 'everything whenever you want it' modern era has exposed a lot of stuff by being so accessible. Anyone marathoning a Bret Hart box set, or a dozen matches of his on Youtube is going to see how samey his routine was more readily than you would have watching him week to week, or even popping in various VHS tapes. Wrestlers have always gotten away with hyperbole, but that doesn't work when you can Google pretty much anything and find it right away to see for yourself. Â As you say, he's gone from the possibility the arena would go mental when his music hit to being sat next to Harley and waving (and looking into the lens for too long like his senile dad used to), and nobody's surprised. It's crazy how it all panned out for these two, but all self-inflicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshC Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I disagree that Bret's stuff was samey. Most of his big matches had a different finish, for starters. You have to consider that the guy had a pretty significant stroke as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Astro Hollywood Posted April 23, 2014 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2014 You have to consider that the guy had a pretty significant stroke as well. Â He definitely lost half a step there, but he seems to have aged 20 years in the last 10. It's like looking at Stu with some seaweed on his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCW Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Foley's worse than Bret in my opinion.At least Bret hung on to his (ill guided) principles for a while before eventually cashing in.Foley did it in a heartbeat, then repeatedly did it every few years to diminishing returns, and is still so deluded that he thinks he can speak down from his high horse as the moral compass of professional wrestling every time WWE do something that's not to his liking. Â I used to love Foley too which makes it worse I suppose (bought all his books,novels + DVD's,waited in line for hours his autograph only to hear him moaning about the (free!) chocolate the shop laid on for him when I got to the top,went to his (shite) standup show where he threw a hissy fit cos some drunk lads had the temerity to heckle him) Â The comparison of not being able to see that the girl you fancy is actually a right bitch is fairly apt.And now that you can finally see it you feel like a knob for being fooled by her in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Astro Hollywood Posted April 23, 2014 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2014 I used to love Foley too which makes it worse I suppose (bought all his books,novels + DVD's,waited in line for hours his autograph only to hear him moaning about the (free!) chocolate the shop laid on for him when I got to the top  Ahahaha, brilliant. I love that the Foley hate is usually rooted in more than just "I read he was a prick" or "look what that cunt's said now." Almost everyone who's encountered him seems to have a personal story that made their fandom turn sour.  If you have one of those, please do share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted April 23, 2014 Author Paid Members Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) I've followed Bret for years (loved him for the longest time, before he gradually started falling off a cliff) and he's never changed with his out of the blue hatred anything that pissed him off that week. Stroke or not, he's always been a snide when it comes to people he didnt like. He was calling Hogan and Flair embarrassing and second rate as early as 1993. The Montreal all thing probably would never happened with anyone else. I'm convinced reading Bret's book and Meltzer's issues regarding it and the Wrestling With Shadows documentary, Vince wouldn't have doubled crossed anyone else but Bret. It would never have got to that point. Hogan, Austin, Warrior all would have just walked before it got to that stage. Vince didn't have to do it to him. Not for money reasons (he offered Warrior a massive long term deal a fortnight after and offered Tyson $3.5 million to do Mania). And you could have got the belt off him in the weeks leading to the match, or the night after. To me it was always that Vince had mastered the art of playing Bret. He knew this would have got to him badly. Michaels pulled Vince's strings throughout the 90s. Hogan would walk if he didnt get his way. Warrior would walk. Austin walked. Rock wasn't a mark for winning and losing. All of Vince's big stars either adapted or left when they didnt want to do something. With Bret, Vince seemed to play him like a fiddle for years after he left. He rendered Bret an unmotivated over emotional mess by the time he got to WCW (where all the vultures who Bret had slagged off for leaving were waiting for him). The big thing that disappointed me greatly was when they did a DVD about him called "Screwed" and everyone buried him. Hogan, Lawler, Vince, Shawn they tore into him. They pretty much bullied Bret into returning because they attacked his "character". Its why I've found Bret quite ridiculous over the years. They wanted him back and he resisted, so they threatened to release a Warrior style DVD of him and he ran back. It wasnt like they threatened actually. They actually filmed the whole company calling him a cunt and showed it to him at Titan Towers. Madness. Edited April 23, 2014 by IANdrewDiceClay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted April 23, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted April 23, 2014 Didn't someone put him up, feed and drive him around while he was over here for a few appearances , only for Foley to completely shun them the whole time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Astro Hollywood Posted April 23, 2014 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2014 Didn't someone put him up, feed and drive him around while he was over here for a few appearances , only for Foley to completely shun them the whole time? Â Yeah, that was patrick madman kelly. Had him stay at his house for the weekend, and a couple of years later, he went to a meet and greet at TNA with his little boy, who was all excited to finally meet his idol. Foley completely blanked him and denied they'd ever met, right in front of his son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Whos Next Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 After raffling off tickets to Wrestlemania, trading in on his WWE fame to raffle those tickets off, surely its better just to say: Â "Couldn't come to terms with WWE over the legends contract, hope its not the end of the partnership, but thanks to them for giving me one more run to be on the big stage" Â Is a lot better than picking apart the deal so publically. Lets face it, its not like they are going to even give him a "future endeavour" post on WWE.com. He could keep schtum about it and no one would notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wright Mark Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) I remember when dopper tweeted something about the Have A Nice Day biopic (whatever happened to that, by the way?) should end at No Way Out 2000, then Foley DM'd him something amongst the lines "Does it make you feel good putting me down after I've had such good news", making dopper feel bad. Â Fuck Mick Foley. Edited April 23, 2014 by Alex Wright Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator Onyx2 Posted April 23, 2014 Awards Moderator Share Posted April 23, 2014 A thread over on off topic got split out to deal with flushing out irritating shit. Â This thread is going the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widdy85 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I have nothing but respect for Mick Foley. I also see no problem with him posting on his own Facebook page for his fans that he is not signing a legends deal and giving the reason why. Â Mick Foley will have more freedom, and make more money not being on the legends deal. Â So what's the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Sergio Mendacious Posted April 23, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted April 23, 2014 I disagree that Bret's stuff was samey. Most of his big matches had a different finish, for starters. You have to consider that the guy had a pretty significant stroke as well. Â I read this as the kayfabey meaning of "stroke" at first, and thought "brilliant pun." Â Bret makes me feel weird to look at. He looks like he lives in a bin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted April 23, 2014 Author Paid Members Share Posted April 23, 2014 I have nothing but respect for Mick Foley. I also see no problem with him posting on his own Facebook page for his fans that he is not signing a legends deal and giving the reason why. Â Mick Foley will have more freedom, and make more money not being on the legends deal. Â So what's the issue? Try reading the discussion maybe, and you'll see the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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