The Official UKFF RAW Thread...

[King Pitcos]

Not more match time, necessarily (although a three-minute Neville-Stardust match does nothing for anybody) 

 

It does more than a fifteen minute Neville-Stardust match, which serves zero purpose other than to wear out a fast-forward button. Neville's been there six months, and I'd rather watch him die in a fire rather than wrestle Stardust ever again because they've done that match so many times already. If they absolutely have to put more Neville vs Stardust matches on television, the shorter the better.

I think The Shield triple threat has to be regarded as a dream match by the majority at the moment. 

 

I doubt that. Rollins has wrestled Reigns and Ambrose a million times already, and they had a four-way PPV match with the three of them and Randy Orton. They could build the triple threat well if they really cared to, but they've overexposed Shield vs Shield already. Reigns vs Ambrose in singles is probably the most intriguing combination they've got on the current roster.

Edited October 1, 2015 by King Pitcos

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Agreed. I've seen those three wrestle each other so many times, I cant believe be there would much interest in a simple 3 way between them.

[Brock Goldberg]

I think a Shield reunion would be met more positively than a Shield triple threat right now or in the future.

[The King Of Swing]

Yeah a Shield reunion would probably go down very well IMO. At least for the first month or so anyway.

 

As for NXT TV the reason I find it more enjoyable than Raw (I can't even remember the last time I watched an episode of Smackdown) is simply because it's short and doesn't out stay it's welcome. Reminds me of a lot 80's and 90's WWE TV which was mostly nothing matches with some minor build to the next event.

 

Also helps that every match hasn't been Groundhog Day'd to death yet. Jobber TV with a main event and proper star events are perfect for me but I know that would probably never work on the main show in 2015.

[Supremo]

The main thing that gets to me at the moment is how overexposed Seth Rollins is. I actually think he's great and does a really good job considering the mostly shit material he gets, but fucking hell. It feels like he's either wrestling twice or appearing in about seven segments on every episode of RAW.

 

I've said it a billion times but the whole show would benefit from them giving less time to Rollins and the Authority and more time to the midcard to actually do stuff other than have endless rematches. Sit down interviews, whacky skits, anything other than endless matches.

[CavemanLynn]

RAW's hamstrung by the fact it's live. Skits and interviews are great ideas, but they both require some kind of prerecording, which would be better for home viewers but not so great for the live crowd they've got to cater to at the same time. In a three hour show, I'd love a couple of 15 minute videos, hyping matches or getting characters over, but that means you've got to trust the live crowd not to start bitching. So I think we're stuck with awkward dialogue in generic corridors with lots of dead air for crowd reactions that the performers probably aren't getting. Especially with the move tennis style at the moment, we don't seem to get much storyline within matches (just join-the-dots bouts with maybe a telling finish or post-match) and the commentators aren't much good at spotting story points (see the recent Paige turn that you know someone like The Brain or Ventura would've picked up on). Unless there's a big shift in format, I think we're stuck as is.

Edited October 3, 2015 by CavemanLynn

[LaGoosh]

I don't really buy that. During the Attitude era there were loads of skits and it was fine. And even in the modern era the Daniel Bryan/Kane skits were a massive success and a large part of the fans really getting behind Bryan. Skits/interviews/vignettes are vital parts of getting characters over. Matches are usually forgotten about the week later but the other stuff is what the fans remember. Really in most cases they don't even need to be longer than 3 minutes but they can make a huge difference to a wrestlers character and momentum. The live crowd are usually fucking dead anyway because they've been forced to sit through about 4 hours of pointless rematches with no stakes and endless boring Rollins/Triple H/Stephanie/Diva promos.

[FUM]

Aye, RAW has been live every week through some of the best periods in it's history. Being live is absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Guest]

Aye, when you go back, crowds reacted to segments almost as much as anything else that was going on. So I don't think a lot of segments would equal a narcy/dead crowd, the segments just have to be not-shit.

 

And yeah, segments are often the quickest/best way of making somebody. A few months I didn't know who the fuck Chad Gable was, a couple 2-minute segments later and I'm like "he's the next Kurt Angle". Lad's impressive in the ring too but just pushing him out the door for random match-ups wouldn't have done nearly as much for me. Raw needs to learn who they can be relatively formulaic with and who needs to get over in a different way. Right now we have 4 or 5 Rollins segments each week, and maybe a couple 30 second interviews for some other random fools

Edited October 3, 2015 by sj5522

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Raw's format has been the same since 1997. Just with different people in the different roles. I've been reading the Power Slam ebook, and its interesting when it gets to the point how Vince McMahon didnt want to change his ways. In 1995, that is the way he felt wrestling should be presented. The Kliq, famously held meetings with him to tell him that matches where wrestlers get put in nappys and hog pen bouts werent the way to do wrestling in that era. And he was so stuck in his ways, he would only go so far. Until 1997 when they went "fuck it." It was only WCW forcing them into it that he eventually threw his hands up and began to change everything. From the set to the length of the show to the characters to the characters. Who is forcing him into doing that in 2015? WWE is in such a comfort zone, and nothing is forcing them into trying new things. Maybe if the ratings fall below a 2.0 and the Networks numbers fall, we may see some change. But the numbers will no doubt bounce back into the comfort zone.

 

Seth Rollins has been taken apart by this company this year. I've never seen someone I've liked so much that I've got no interest in watching. He's an amazing wrestler. But he's not a star to me. He's a bloke in leather trousers carrying a belt around.

Edited October 3, 2015 by IANdrewDiceClay

[Undefeated Steak]

Totally agree with that post Ian, and the PS book sounds good. I'm one of the last people you'll find with a 'get rid of Vince, he's killing wrestling' attitude but you have to wonder at this point whether what he still brings to the table outweighs his negatives.

 

The only WWE content I've watched in months was the main event from NXT Brooklyn. To me, Finn Balor looked like a bona fide star (Owens looked great too). Balor looked like the second coming of Jeff Hardy, and as much as I appreciated his talent when I last saw him, he certainly didn't have that star power at the beginning of the year. Which is a total testament to Triple H, NXT, Finn himself and everybody else involved in getting him to that level.

I've no doubt WWE still has it in them to have another golden age, I just can't see it being under Vince. Looking through the current Roster on Wikipedia, and the amount of young talent they have is crazy. Wrestling is always best when everybody on screen is having fun and I think it's something WWE has lacked for a number of years now. Everybody on NXT seems to be having a huge amount of fun as it's contagious. 

[Guest]

Raw's format has been the same since 1997. Just with different people in the different roles. I've been reading the Power Slam ebook, and its interesting when it gets to the point how Vince McMahon didnt want to change his ways. In 1995, that is the way he felt wrestling should be presented. The Kliq, famously held meetings with him to tell him that matches where wrestlers get put in nappys and hog pen bouts werent the way to do wrestling in that era. And he was so stuck in his ways, he would only go so far. Until 1997 when they went "fuck it." It was only WCW forcing them into it that he eventually threw his hands up and began to change everything. From the set to the length of the show to the characters to the characters. Who is forcing him into doing that in 2015? WWE is in such a comfort zone, and nothing is forcing them into trying new things. Maybe if the ratings fall below a 2.0 and the Networks numbers fall, we may see some change. But the numbers will no doubt bounce back into the comfort zone.

 

Seth Rollins has been taken apart by this company this year. I've never seen someone I've liked so much that I've got no interest in watching. He's an amazing wrestler. But he's not a star to me. He's a bloke in leather trousers carrying a belt around.

They didn't always have a massive writing team though. According to Austin's podcast with HHH, in the money years they had a modestly sized writing team. Now we've got god knows how many and god knows who bouncing 'ideas' off each other and coming up with not very much. I imagine they're like the corporate folk in the Simpsons. Too much focus on trying to appeal to those who think wrestling's just shit anyway, and not a lot of things that make wrestle-sense. Some of the stuff they're doing lately actually makes more sense when watched in reverse, like this week's 6-tag with Paige, Charlotte and Becky...but the heel turn was last week.

I think they just need an overhaul. I really don't wanna sound like one of those ingrates who's like "lol fuck off and retire already Vince so it can be NXT"...but yeah, that, basically. I'd worry Triple H would still be at the front and centre of crappy storylines given his history but I wouldn't care if he was able to rejuvenate just about everything else

You're probably right that a lack of a real second competitor means they can just coast, but obviously they shouldn't want the brand's strength to just fade. Or at some point, maybe not soon, something will overtake it

Edited October 4, 2015 by sj5522

[Mr_Danger]

I know HHH is seen as this great hope for WWE but whilst he clearly has a grasp that wrestling needs to go back to basics in a lot of repects i'd have some doubts that with him in charge we'd see any less shite in all. Remember all the goofy awful shite he's been more than happy to go along with and his boring ass reign on top. The way he books or allows himself and Steph to be booked compared to most of the roster shows he still doesn't completely get it. Fair enough they're not afraid to show arse but they are still booked as superior intellects to nearly every baby face.

[FUM]

I'd take Triple H filling up RAW for 2 hours every week over what I'm watching just now. His run on top is underrated - he was fantastic.

[King Pitcos]

Too much focus on trying to appeal to those who think wrestling's just shit anyway

 

That is definitely the problem. Because "those who think wrestling's just shit anyway" is the people like us who have been crying about it on the Internet since about the time WCW folded, and saying it needs more workrate matches and less focus on characters and storylines. Essentially, they've focused the company on catering to Internet complaints from a decade ago. And it hasn't worked, because "more workrate needed" was always a stupid idea in the first place and we realised that by the time they did it. Ziggler and Rusev doing a fifteen minute epic with three finisher near-falls isn't going to draw a single new viewer, and it's going to turn off people who weren't that interested in it the first six times.

 

Although the writers are still writing characters and scenes, the top end apparently just don't sign off on it. I wonder if that's down to the international TV and language barrier, or lack of faith in the talent to do angles, or if there's some other reason.

Edited October 4, 2015 by King Pitcos