Raw discussion - 15/7

[Scott Malbranque]

The fact he was a primary figure in Domino's Power Uti story, as Super Festus, earns him hero status with me forever more.

[King Pitcos]

Really good Raw. I love the concept of the champ (or an authority figure) picking the number one contender in the final segment, and every match that night explicitly having the element of impressing the decision-maker. Bryan's filler match with Barrett getting cut was a masterstroke as well for the effectiveness of him being the one picked, and him being small enough to just pop out from behind the lineup. Crowd were well into him too, he's on fire lately.

 

Fandango had a great showing against Orton, which is a good sign. The Usos, The Shield, Henry, and the Wyatts all had good run-outs. Ziggler vs Big E at SummerSlam is intriguing. Del Rio vs Anyone isn't at the moment, though. Except a returning Kofi. (Edit: Or RVD actually.) I bet it'll be Del Rio vs Sheamus again though.

 

Punk vs Lesnar is shaping up wonderfully. Punk has the size, style and insecurity to play the underdog in a way that Cena just can't. And there's nobody better to

 

I wasn't impressed by RVD vs Jericho at all. I loved their match in 2002 that Jericho got really precious about, but didn't rate this one. It felt like that Jericho vs Punk match last month, trying to do epic but not managing it at all. Hearing that they had time added on late makes sense, it did seem like they were trying to stretch it out.

[air_raid]

My logic is, if you have a Mattel figure, you are remembered.

 

Can't argue with action figure logic. This would have main evented five Manias in a row in my fed :

 

[Big Jock Knew]

This week's Raw motivated me to visit the UKFF to see what kind of reaction the current product is getting. Personally, this is probably the most invested I have been in WWE since 2005 or so. I think they've got a great core of young talent just now who are all becoming stars in their own right. The reactions Daniel Bryan got at Money in the Bank and then Raw were amazing. He is white-hot just now. I'm also really excited by Bray Wyatt and the upcoming CM Punk/Brock Lesnar feud that was handled brilliantly.

 

Above all that, probably the greatest success of what they are doing just now can be seen with RVD. I have always been a bit of a fan of his but his return shows the power of decent advertising and limiting how exposed your talent are. I'm pleased to see him again and I hope he can stay so fresh for at least a while.

[Teedy Kay]

Anyone else taking from Wyatt's promo (Weren't it great!!!) that he was addressing Kane, and he knows that Bearer or Taker have been feeding him shit about his life?

 

I could watch Wyatt promo like that all day, in the same way I was addicted to Cactus Jack and Raven promo's from ECW. There is just nothing better than a superbly delivered promo that makes you think, there's no cheese required, no cheap pops needed and no 'Pipe Bombs' garnished with smarky undertones necessary ... it's just pure captivation ... and I'm captivated, I want more and more.

 

Harper needs a different style of sheep mask to get the full effect there I feel.

[Devon Malcolm]

I quite enjoyed Raw as well. These days it just is way too long to fully hold my attention the whole time but as well as some really good matches, the angles seemed well thought out as well. Except the McMahons thing which is still making no sense at all to me. A few things:-

 

* Good to see the commentary team ignoring the crowd's piss-poor attempts at redoing the post-Wrestlemania Raw. It was pretty embarrassing.

 

* I liked the way Daniel Bryan was chosen and the way Cena sold it. It was different and I liked that. However, I reckon, judging by what HHH said, that Vince will come back and make Bryan wrestle a match to be number one contender or something.

 

* Enjoyed the Wyatts. I've not seen or heard of Rowan before so I don't really have an opinion on him but I didn't notice any issues with him. R-Truth was great during that segment as well, he deserves credit for that.

 

* They should put Christian in a tag team with someone because he's just lost at the moment. He never has bad matches but he's just floating around doing fuck all. Stick him with R-Truth or something and strengthen the tag division.

 

* The Shield's attack on Henry was great and I'm looking forward to that storyline. Really wanted a Henry v Cena rematch, though.

 

* What was the point of that Brie Bella v whatever girl that was that dances with Brodus match? Nice to see the Bellas, though. Lovely girls.

 

* The Ziggler / AJ split was well done. I've seen a bit of Langston on NXT and I'm not sure him v Ziggler interests me, though.

 

* I hope they put Del Rio against someone different now. I'd like to see him against Henry but he's against the Shield now. I hope it's not Sheamus.

 

* Punk v Lesnar has me convinced it could be a competitive match before the event, much more so than when he wrestled the Undertaker. Great angle, that, and Heyman was superb.

 

* Cant remember what else happened.

[mim731]

* What was the point of that Brie Bella v whatever girl that was that dances with Brodus match? Nice to see the Bellas, though. Lovely girls.

 

To promote the new 'Total Divas' show airing on E! in a couple of weeks, which they will all be featuring heavily in.

[Devon Malcolm]

* What was the point of that Brie Bella v whatever girl that was that dances with Brodus match? Nice to see the Bellas, though. Lovely girls.

 

To promote the new 'Total Divas' show airing on E! in a couple of weeks, which they will all be featuring heavily in.

 

Ahh. Somebody remind me not to watch that, then.

[ShortOrderCook]

Bray Wyatts promos make perfect sense if you follow one rule: he thinks he's God. He thinks he's the messiah come down to save us all from this lie we're living in (man). So he talks about how rubbish life is and how powerful he is and how he'll always be there. Because he's a cult leader.

 

The content of Wyatt's promos (and some specific lines in the We're Coming videos) borrow pretty heavily from Charles Manson's prison interviews. The whole 'Family' thing too, obviously.

 

Yeah, was coming in to post this. There's a few clear different influences in Brays overall character, the promo style is definitely influenced by Manson though, even down to the occasional singing. Ever since I saw those Manson interviews I felt they lent themselves tremendously to a wrestling promo for a cult leader character. The character Bray is portraying is in so many ways a character I've long wanted to see occur and he plays it fantastically.

[Astro Hollywood]

Bray Wyatts promos make perfect sense if you follow one rule: he thinks he's God. He thinks he's the messiah come down to save us all from this lie we're living in (man). So he talks about how rubbish life is and how powerful he is and how he'll always be there. Because he's a cult leader.

 

The content of Wyatt's promos (and some specific lines in the We're Coming videos) borrow pretty heavily from Charles Manson's prison interviews. The whole 'Family' thing too, obviously.

 

Yeah, was coming in to post this. There's a few clear different influences in Brays overall character, the promo style is definitely influenced by Manson though, even down to the occasional singing. Ever since I saw those Manson interviews I felt they lent themselves tremendously to a wrestling promo for a cult leader character. The character Bray is portraying is in so many ways a character I've long wanted to see occur and he plays it fantastically.

 

The singing part actually comes from the film Fallen. In that, and I'll spoiler it because it's a film, and just in case:

 

<-- click on 'spoiler' to show/hide the spoiler

The Devil inhabits various people throughout the film, and jumps into a new host whenever the current one touches somebody. Denzel Washington's running about the place trying to find/stop him, and the clue that any given person is the one currently possessed by the Devil, is that they all sing a particular song. The song Bray Wyatt breaks into. It plays through the opening credits, and then the first host (Elias Koteas) sings it as he's being executed in the gas chamber.

 

[close spoiler]

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Here's it is.

 

 

That's why I'm loving Wyatt so much. He's clearly taking inspiration from a bunch of different places, and he's built it into something really unique and mesmerising.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Woy mentioned his fascination for all the characters influences. There's so many. So far there's old Florida Bugsy McGraw in there, Max Cady of course, the whole look of the Texas Chain Saw Massacre. Charles Manson, as you said. What else have we got? Dusty Rhodes is big into lifting shit from pop culture. And Dusty is the one who is working with him on this. Probably why its so different when its not in the hands of the regular writing staff.

 

I think he's ridiculously good. Not in a "oh this has got potential" way either. I mean proper next big star level good. Just look how he carries himself. He isn't just some goon they brought up from developmental to sink or swim. He's nailing every mannerism and every promo he's done so far. Its real hard to be built up so big and establish yourself as a slow burning character at the same time. And its even harder to cloud yourself in all this mystery and creepiness when you know he's IRS' son and has been on TV before with his tits out. He believes in his gimmick, which is rare in the current climate.

[Scott Malbranque]

Does nobody else think he's actually quite good looking too for a rather robust man, with great eyes and a nice smile?

I find him a fascinating character, and his live promo - with those lovely inflections and utter self belief - was absolutely spellbinding.

I had a wee fear that he may have come off so well verbally because of phenomenal editing (akin to Sean O'Haire's devil's advocate vignettes) but by fuck, he delivered and has me giddy for tonight.

[Astro Hollywood]

There's arguably some Deliverance in there, if not directly, then through the fact all inbred Hicksploitation, with rapey looking mountain men, can be traced back to it.

 

I've been trying to think of where the lantern may have come from. Obviously it's possible that some of this is just a totally fresh idea pulled out of nowhere, but it would be interesting to find if there was some little moment in an existing work that sparked that particular motif.

[d-d-d-dAz]

It's just refreshing to see; a) a guy take a serious creative interest in his character, and live or die by his own vision and b) a guy throw themselves headlong into a character that isn't 'cool guy, wears nice clothes, bangs all the women and is dead hard...'

 

I bet they get shitloads of wrestlers who offer up their own creative input, ending in them looking like a super slick, super cool king among men. To chose to portray a character that isn't inherently cool is refreshing in and of itself.

 

I bloody love Bray.

[ShortOrderCook]

Astro, I agree completely. I knew the line Bray sang was a reference from something in particular, having seen it mentioned (possibly by yourself) when Bray first did that lovely 'I ain't no white trash' promo introducing the character, finishing singing that. I was just referencing that the breaking into song is also reminiscent of Manson prison interviews, especially that his voice is actually alright.

 

Ian, I said this after his debut the other week.

 

 

 

I've watched the Wyatt Family debut back a bunch of times now and I fucking love it. I love the effort that has been put into it, as hokey as those vignettes with the reporter and shit seemed, I love all that stuff and am happy to see a return to that sort of thing in creating a curiosity in a character and their back story. They used to do that shit loads and as soon as someone with that kind of effort made their debut they were already over. That sort of thing has almost exclusively been saved for The Undertaker over recent years and he is someone it's always worked magically with in maintaining his aura. I love all the imagery of it, the blend of Texas Chainsaw Massacre-esque, early Lost The Others vibe and Charlie Manson style rambling promos. I love Bray and his beard and his whole look, it's an instantly identifiable, iconic look (except for his in-ring wrestling garb) and I love the lantern. I think the issue with blowing out an electric light are silly, it's simply an effect. I fucking loved the entrance, the music, the reaction when they walked out. It might be one of my favourite debuts/arrivals they've done. I love the rocking chair. I loved Brays confident walk over to Kane to survey the damage provided by his minions. But the attack I wasn't so fussed about, it was everything that led up to that, that felt really magical.

 

Something about the whole feel of Bray in the rocking chair, the Family appearance, the Cult like religious following, hints at brain-washing toward a greater purpose and that the reality we live is a lie (again shades of Manson) definitely reminds me of elements of The Others from Lost, no doubt about it. Especially the use of the Lantern for some reason. It's more a Season 2 Lost feeling when you thought Mr. Friendly might be their leader and they genuinely appeared to be hillbillies. The lighting and blowing out of the lantern reminds me of the 'LIGHT 'EM UP' scene from season 2. I absolutely adore the entrance, they could do something seriously visually cool with their entrance for WrestleMania or another big show. The rocking chair and empty rocking chair in the pre-debut vignettes completely reminded me of the creepy as fuck Ben and Locke meeting Jacob in the shack scene from Lost. Those may just be me but i'm certainly seeing some influences there.

 

There really is so much I love about the character. I'm a sucker for subtle hints and nods to things. Truth be told Bray is piecing together and perfecting the sort of wrestling character I've long wanted to see and always felt if I was to be a wrestler it's the sort of character i'd want to portray. It's come together and developed very nicely with each added touch over the last year or so. Brays a special talent.