Paid Members ShortOrderCook Posted June 24, 2013 Author Paid Members Share Posted June 24, 2013 Glad to get that post/response from air_raid. Have to admit I very much got the impression that, that match is a very different story within context. But that's not to say I didn't at all enjoy it out if context, because I did immensely. But you can tell there's more to it and you can tell that from the audience reaction. You can see/tell how invested they are in this and I'm definitely left with the feeling that I'm missing out not having the full picture. Â And yeah, that last comment was designed to get a reaction and for a laugh, but honestly...that's actually totally how it looks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 This might just have been the frame of mind I was in but I got about eight minutes into Kobashi vs. Misawa and gave up on it. I was really into the first move with Misawa ducking Kobashi's spinning chop thing which got an "oooh" that you'd normally only hear for something good, like the revelation of a camper van as a mystery prize, but then they launched into a random "we should do some lucha now" and I lost interest. That opening short chain sequence just took me out of it straight away. It was just there. It wasn't a case of them trying to get one up on their opponent, or trying to test their opponent's speed, or being very even, or struggling against each other, or trying to outsmart each other, it was just there. Or at least that's how it felt to me. They just went through it as if they were thinking, we've gotta do this so let's get through it as quickly as possible, there, tick!, now I'm gonna drop you on your head. I kinda wanted them to go slower, I think that's my problem. The first move made me think "ooh, this'll be good, two heavyweights trying to throw bombs at each other but its too early" and then they did a chain in thirty seconds and got to the first head bump and dives. I just wanted it to feel like a slow battle between two veteran heavyweights. It didn't. Â I dunno, I'll give it another go when I'm more patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagnam Style Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I am not one for words but that 2003 Kobashi Vs Misawa match was awesome, especially the suplex off the ramp to the outside was insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No use for a nick Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I am not one for words but that 2003 Kobashi Vs Misawa match was awesome, especially the suplex off the ramp to the outside was insane. Â The way Misawa died, with his "life bar" reaching zero after a reasonably simple move (a far cry from he various Burning Hammers) that move is for me the lowest point of the match. It's not even the body finish! Â I know, it's Kobashi taking the crazy bump, but it's THAT kind of move that killed Misawa and made a cripple out of people like Kobashi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Maverick Posted June 27, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted June 27, 2013 Ended up watching Lawler-Funk by accident today, was on the end of an old Jimmy Hart shoot I had on in the background while working out. It was near unwatchable quality and I was just looking up every minute or so by doing stuff, but eventually it had me hooked and I sat down to watch the end of the match which is a rare rare occurrence for me. It really was a great brawl, all the stuff with the chair and Jimmy Hart interference was well done too, the one thing that stood out about Lawler was his timing, he always knew exactly when to do things to pop the crowd and when to look a certain way or when to start the comeback. Suprised I hadn't seen it before as i'm a big Lawler fan. He'd be a great one for the 3 dvd treatment from WWE if they could get some Memphis stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hitman Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I'd never seen that Spike Dudley vs Stone Cold match before, which is strange because I've seen the pre-match angle with the petition loads of times. As a massive fan of heel Austin I loved every second of this. Big Steve was just an absolute killer here, he looked like he wanted to behead Spike from the first spell. I love how he was so focused on punishing Spike that he didn't even take his jacket off for half the match. That crowd pop when Spike reverses the throw into the table was insane as well. The crowd was really invested into the underdog story they were telling. Loved Austin nicking the two Chris' finishing holds too. Great stuff. Â Kobashi vs Misawa is one of my all-time favourite matches, and particularly holds a special place in my heart as the first big Puroresu main event I ever watched. I read about the match in that magazine that was a precursor to Fighting Spirit (Total Wrestling?) and they were branding it a must-see classic so I got it on a comp from a trader. It's safe to say my jaw dropped. I'd been following Ring of Honor since the year before so was familiar with the more workrate-based matches but this was like nothing I'd ever seen. The stage spot had me standing up out of my seat and I fell for every single false finish despite knowing the result. It just absorbed me completely and turned me into a fan of Japanese wrestling for life. Â This thread has been brilliant so far, looking forward to hearing the other entries and reading everyone else thoughts. Some real good discussion going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted June 27, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted June 27, 2013 The way Misawa died, with his "life bar" reaching zero after a reasonably simple move (a far cry from he various Burning Hammers) that move is for me the lowest point of the match. It's not even the body finish! Â Â Yeah, what a pussy-ass pissweak finish that was. Reasonably simple move, sheer head drop. OK, didn't quite look like the previous three which looked like they could have killed Misawa (twice) and Akiyama, missing the point. In kayfabe it's a Murder Death Kill rarely used "final resort" killing blow that he only ever used seven times over the course of eight years, if you include the two wristclutch variants which were much safer and nearer to a slam than a head drop. It's a move that you don't survive, whatever the execution looks like. It was exquisitely protected through it's seldom-used-nature. Â I don't even know what "body finish" is supposed to mean, but your "life bar" comment is completely asinine. This is the absolute opposite of that. You've missed the point entirely. In succession Misawa has kicked out of Kobashi's normal finish, then a sheer head drop, and after numerous convincing nearfalls from the seemingly "unkickoutable" he finally succumbs to the actual unkickoutable. It's the climax of the drama. The three count itself is academic, everybody in the house knows he's won. The three count itself is that huge shared 3 second orgasm that arenas used to share when Hogan had legdropped the heel in the 80s, or Goldberg had just jackhammered someone, except multiplied many times over by the context of the match that I bleated about in my previous post. It's a superbly logically constructed finish, it's my favourite finish ever, and I can't believe a fan of the Kings Road style (as the foreknowledge of "previous Burning Hammers" suggests) could have a problem with it. I hate this place at times. Â If you really want to see a stupid "life bar reaches zero" finish, check out that tag match Tsuyoshi Kikuchi regains his feet after a bloody super brainbuster (no cover, not even a near fall) and then gets pinned after a Shotei. LAME. Dropped on his bonce off the top rope, gets straight up. Slapped across the face, FINISHED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No use for a nick Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 The way Misawa died, with his "life bar" reaching zero after a reasonably simple move (a far cry from he various Burning Hammers) that move is for me the lowest point of the match. It's not even the body finish! Â Â Yeah, what a pussy-ass pissweak finish that was. Reasonably simple move, sheer head drop. OK, didn't quite look like the previous three which looked like they could have killed Misawa (twice) and Akiyama, missing the point. In kayfabe it's a Murder Death Kill rarely used "final resort" killing blow that he only ever used seven times over the course of eight years, if you include the two wristclutch variants which were much safer and nearer to a slam than a head drop. It's a move that you don't survive, whatever the execution looks like. It was exquisitely protected through it's seldom-used-nature. Â I don't even know what "body finish" is supposed to mean, but your "life bar" comment is completely asinine. This is the absolute opposite of that. You've missed the point entirely. In succession Misawa has kicked out of Kobashi's normal finish, then a sheer head drop, and after numerous convincing nearfalls from the seemingly "unkickoutable" he finally succumbs to the actual unkickoutable. It's the climax of the drama. The three count itself is academic, everybody in the house knows he's won. The three count itself is that huge shared 3 second orgasm that arenas used to share when Hogan had legdropped the heel in the 80s, or Goldberg had just jackhammered someone, except multiplied many times over by the context of the match that I bleated about in my previous post. It's a superbly logically constructed finish, it's my favourite finish ever, and I can't believe a fan of the Kings Road style (as the foreknowledge of "previous Burning Hammers" suggests) could have a problem with it. I hate this place at times. Â If you really want to see a stupid "life bar reaches zero" finish, check out that tag match Tsuyoshi Kikuchi regains his feet after a bloody super brainbuster (no cover, not even a near fall) and then gets pinned after a Shotei. LAME. Dropped on his bonce off the top rope, gets straight up. Slapped across the face, FINISHED. Â I mispelled "bloody", writing "body" instead. And I didn't express myself well. I have no problem with the ending of the match, it was very good, for all the reasons you explained well. Â What I mean is that the tiger suplex from the ramp to the floor makes me cringe because it's the kind of bump, taken several times, which ultimately killed Misawa, crippled Kobashi and probably did a lot of bad thing to the health of a lot of All Japan/NOAH guys. Â "life bar reaches zero" was not a reference to the story of any match. It was my assessment of hat happened to Misawa in REAL LIFE. His body was so crippled by he style he employed that a "simple" move, executed properly (ie NOT a botch) killed him. WHich makes me really sad, as I really liked the worker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted June 27, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted June 27, 2013 I mispelled "bloody", writing "body" instead. And I didn't express myself well. I have no problem with the ending of the match, it was very good, for all the reasons you explained well. What I mean is that the tiger suplex from the ramp to the floor makes me cringe because it's the kind of bump, taken several times, which ultimately killed Misawa, crippled Kobashi and probably did a lot of bad thing to the health of a lot of All Japan/NOAH guys.  "life bar reaches zero" was not a reference to the story of any match. It was my assessment of hat happened to Misawa in REAL LIFE. His body was so crippled by he style he employed that a "simple" move, executed properly (ie NOT a botch) killed him. WHich makes me really sad, as I really liked the worker.  Sorry lad, completely misunderstood you.   Incidentally, I asked my puro-loving mate what his favourite match was recently and this was one of his potential answers. Anybody watching that's a puro fan and hasn't watched this match, or has watched the Misawa/Kobashi match and thought "I wonder how good they were in their prime" - I'd recommend watching it.  9th June 1995 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi © VS Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 1, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted July 1, 2013 I cant believe I forgot to put this on my list. Watch X-Pac make Eric Young in the space of a few minutes. Probably my favourite ever Impact match. Its really short, yet super exciting. I swear, X-Pac doesn't get any of the credit he should get. Its one thing doing it against AJ Styles. Its another taking a joke character and sell the shit out of all his offense. Its only about 2 minutes long, but Waltman only needs 2 minutes to have a cracking match. X-Pac might be my favourite wrestler when I think about it. He's had some of my favourite ever matches. Â From 2:04 http://videos.sapo.pt/6ToTnYOMS6o3i4es2u6t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 1, 2013 Moderators Share Posted July 1, 2013 Is that the Leather Jacket and Piledriver match? If so, Pac made Young look a million fucking bucks. Amazing stuff. I remember our reaction to it in chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 1, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted July 1, 2013 Yeah. I remember thinking "well, that's Eric Young set then". It was a proper next breakout star type win. I dont know why they had to make him into a looney again. He's always been one of the best workers they've had. And X-Pac gave him a huge rub that night. X-Pac put him over in a six man tag match a few weeks later as well. Nash and Waltman really rated him after they worked with him as well. And X-Pac's chief scout in Triple H's mind. He values his opinion more than anyones. Â X-Pac's whole TNA run seemed like he was going to have a stroke with the lack of organization they had. I remember him doing interviews and stuff at the time where he'd question why there was so many people backstage and why they debuted RVD by giving him a kicking. Then there was that famous (to me anyway) occasion when TNA was supposed to put the spray paint under the ring for him to get, but he couldnt find it. He broke character and kept yelling "where the fuck is it? Why did they fucking hide it?" He's just great. X-Pac's a really smart bloke when you listen to him. I bet he'd be an awesome booker somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 1, 2013 Moderators Share Posted July 1, 2013 The Cage match with the elbow drop! Again Waltman made him look a star, before he started sucking off Orlando Jordan in skits or whatever he spent the time doing. Â There really is a lot to be said for top 2 minute matches though. Lee Scott vs Sid, Chris Masters and Drew McIntyre managed to have a 90 second cracker on Smackdown one week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I never understood why he got so much hate ("X-Pac heat"). I've always found him ultra entertaining, I can't remember any Waltman match, from any company/era/whatever, that actively sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gold76 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Waltman was great at laying out matches, Vince made Jericho go to him to learn how to work the wwe way. Â He made his opponents look great and should have been more of a star than he was, but I guess that was down to his vices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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