Kelly Kelly or Jushin Liger

[JNLister]

Slightly off topic, but this is going to be the only chance I get to casually mention that Regal on Colt Cabana's show mentioned the utterly bizarre trivia note that during his 1980s stint with All Star, Liger worked a show in the Shetland Isles.

[AVM]

Depends how you promote it really. If you have a lot of resources and can really communicate how much of a big deal Jushin Liger is in certain parts of the world then undoubtedly you'd go for Liger every time, but if resources are low and the promotion doesn't get much of a chance to speak then Kelly Kelly would be the bigger draw- her name would say more to a casual fan than Kelly Kelly unless they were 'educated' otherwise.

[air_raid]

"Casual fans" don't go to little BritWres shows featuring imports. They watch Raw on telly and go to the nearest WWE tour show to them once or twice a year. Anoraks go to little shows, the question is are there more workrate perverts or, well, plain perverts.

[dangerously420]

Slightly off topic, but this is going to be the only chance I get to casually mention that Regal on Colt Cabana's show mentioned the utterly bizarre trivia note that during his 1980s stint with All Star, Liger worked a show in the Shetland Isles.

 

There was an attempt to have a show ran in Shetland in 2010 but it never worked out. I'm sure if wrestling was taken to Shetland it would draw as back in the day I've heard stories of All Star having a good house up in Shetland years ago.

[Arch Stanton]

I think between us all we've pretty much nailed the argument in the thread- we've established that there is a hardcore fanbase out there that will make the effort to travel and will pay upwards of

[Daily Buzzard]

Did the old promoters ever run the Channel Islands, or the Isle of Man? Or any other islands off the beaten track, like the Outer Hebrides or Sark?

[JNLister]

Courtesy of Wrestling Heritage:

 

There was a lively wrestling scene on the Isle of Man in the late sixties and early seventies. George Barnabus opened a wrestling gymnasium and trained a number of local boys, including Phil Barry, Mike Young and Bill Kennedy amongst others. Needing somewhere to display their talents it was necessary to form Inter-Continental Promotions, who organised tournaments around the island from their Douglas office.

 

Not sure about the Channel Islands, but I doubt it would be worth anyone's while given the travel costs.

[HarmonicGenerator]

I wonder if the fact that Kelly Kelly couldn't use that name would make a difference. I know any poster would find a way round it

 

(ie

 

formerWWE STARwho we're not allowed to callKELLY KELLY)

 

but does the 'name' part of 'name value' make very much difference? Obviously Liger wouldn't have this problem.

 

I'd pick Liger anyway, for reasons already explained in a much better way than I could manage.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

I think anybody that gives a shit about Kelly Kelly or 90% of the ex-Diva population is likely to be so "WWE or nothing" that they wouldn't pay money to see a little Indy/BritWres show regardless of who you book that used to be on TV anyway, other than a star of Batista calibre for instance. As in, they loved her when she was part of "THE SHOW" but now she's not in it, she's dead to them. They might not even be aware of the show going on, whereas nerds like us who come on forums like this to talk about the rasslin mostly regard Kelly and her ilk as the piss break match and probably aren't more inclined to get off our arses to go to a show just because she's on it. We're much more likely to stay in with Spankwire than pay to see a particular set of clothed T&A, no matter how pert.

Yeah, pretty much my thoughts on Kelly there. She was popular in WWE as the hot blonde face once Trish was gone, but never reached that level of popularity, skill or success. She never really had any specific skills that set her apart, and on an indy show she'd be likely to play a simple valet role or piss break match, nothing significant, so why shell out a biggish fee for her? You could get Sunny for a smaller fee, assuming she has herself in workable shape and isn't in jail, she's still fairly popular and looked good on WWE programming a while back (edit: holy crap, the 15th anniversary Raw was five years ago, fuck me). If she's completely fucked herself up, then any indy chick will do, as long as she looks good.

 

I never really followed Japanese wrestling, but I remember Liger from the Benoit DVD, he has an exciting style and cool masks, so he appeals to the kids and workrate smarks. I find even the horny dads tend to think the high flying stuff is fun as well.

[King Pitcos]

Kelly would be main-eventing a shitty little BritWres show if she was the only name on it. Mental for her to play second fiddle to The Kickpad Boyz vs The Emo Ladz or whatever.

[Chest Rockwell]

No one wants a womens match in the main event even if one of them used to be on telly. She would be in the main event though, and it would be really shit and everyone would leave unhappy. Just because someone is a 'casual' or a WWE fan it doesn't mean they have absolutely no concept of quality and are completely unable to distinguish any wrestlers on any criteria other than if they've been on TV or not.

 

You still live in a world of ridiculous stereotypes and straw men. No one gives a fuck about Kelly Kelly.

[King Pitcos]

And everyone gives even less of a fuck about no-name trainees and journeymen. Regardless of her inability to even do something as simple as bounce off the ropes, she has far more credibility to be the show-closer than somebody no-one there will have heard of. That you'd even throw out the "no concept of quality" line relating to Kelly's lack of Technical Skillz like that's the most important thing to the average punter is evidence enough that you've got a bit of ridiculous stereotype in you. If people are paying to see Kelly Kelly, they're going home happy as long as they've had their polaroid and seen her do the stinkface and that leg scissors thing.

 

A match doesn't need three and a quarter asterisks or more to satisfy a paying fan. They're not going to see her as the only one they recognise on the poster, buy a ticket and then go for a piss during her match whilst waiting for Thunder Styles or whoever to do a moonsault in the main. That's why "she'd be likely to play a simple valet role or piss break match" needed correcting. And that wasn't posted by Wurzel Gummidge either, but I understand that it's easier to cry about straw men when you're having your morning strop than it is to actually read the thread.

 

Yes, you'd struggle to fill an arena with a women's main event, but it's a small indie show. There's small-time groups that put on shows consisting of nothing but women's matches, including in the main events, and the women on those are absolutely rotten-looking compared to Kelly.

[Southside crew]

Kelly Kelly all the way , financially would be so much better !

[Chest Rockwell]

And everyone gives even less of a fuck about no-name trainees and journeymen. Regardless of her inability to even do something as simple as bounce off the ropes, she has far more credibility to be the show-closer than somebody no-one there will have heard of. That you'd even throw out the "no concept of quality" line relating to Kelly's lack of Technical Skillz like that's the most important thing to the average punter is evidence enough that you've got a bit of ridiculous stereotype in you. If people are paying to see Kelly Kelly, they're going home happy as long as they've had their polaroid and seen her do the stinkface and that leg scissors thing.

 

A match doesn't need three and a quarter asterisks or more to satisfy a paying fan. They're not going to see her as the only one they recognise on the poster, buy a ticket and then go for a piss during her match whilst waiting for Thunder Styles or whoever to do a moonsault in the main. That's why "she'd be likely to play a simple valet role or piss break match" needed correcting. And that wasn't posted by Wurzel Gummidge either, but I understand that it's easier to cry about straw men when you're having your morning strop than it is to actually read the thread.

 

Of course. I agreed that she would (and should) go on last. I just said that people would be disappointed. I'm not talking about moves (let alone saying that they're the most important thing) - there you go putting words in peoples' mouths so you can make the same old arguments again (and again and again). Other people still have quality criteria even if it's not the same as that of a hardcore fan. And for starters, one of those criteria is big guys with muscles; people really don't give much of a shit about the women. She's not even got enough of a personality for girls to get behind her like.. I dunno.. bringing Lita over 5 years ago.

 

Also it occurs to me that on a UK show she'd have no one to tell her what to do all the time as she did in WWE - half these UK shows wrestlers get left to their own devices by their clueless bookers, especially imports because the guy with more money than sense lacks any credibility or authority. And I have about zero faith in her ability to entertain people if left to her own devices.

 

Yes, you'd struggle to fill an arena with a women's main event, but it's a small indie show. There's small-time groups that put on shows consisting of nothing but women's matches, including in the main events, and the women on those are absolutely rotten-looking compared to Kelly.

 

Completely different fans for those shitfests than you're talking about drawing on the basis of WWE name value.

[NEWM]

I don't care how shit she is/was, it strikes me as a bit unfair to assume that there's no way she could have her style of birds match at an indie show without agents and co walking her through it. For a good half of her WWE run she was probably working similar matches virtually every night. Yeah, it looks shite on Raw, but I bet as far as the fundamentals go, she'd still shit on all the local (female, at least) talent she'd work with who have never had WWE experience.

 

It would be like a League 2 footballer showing up for your 5-a-side game. They'd look shit on a Saturday afternoon, but they'll piss all over you and your mates in any position you put them at that level.