Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted January 4, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2013 Yeah, you're probably right.. that part was more of an aside/afterthough rather than my main point. I've not seen her wrestle for years and my brain does pretty much lump all WWE women into one homogenous, subpar group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 One slight point there is the idea/condition that Kelly be the only name on the show. Being a "promoter for one of the bigger BritWres boys/indies", you'd think we'd be able to afford a Chris Masters/Jerry Lynn/Gangrel (just names I see frequently on these type of small shows). I'd really hope that Kelly would be one of the attractions, not the main attraction, basically because of this: Â people really don't give much of a shit about the women. She's not even got enough of a personality for girls to get behind her like.. I dunno.. bringing Lita over 5 years ago. Â If that's the case though, I'd rather have her in a spot like manager for one of the Kickpad Boyz/Emo Ladz teams, or the special guest ref or something. A promoter should play to strengths, and Kelly, despite name value, doesn't have the strength to wrestle in the main event of a show- no women really do currently- but it's a huge indictment of whatever roster I've got assembled if doing that is the best case scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEWM Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 That was my original idea with the thread, you have to put one of them as the big name of your poster if you're doing one of the BritWres shows. You're pretty much hanging the responsibility of the gate (good or bad), on one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Of course. I agreed that she would (and should) go on last. I just said that people would be disappointed. I'm not talking about moves (let alone saying that they're the most important thing) - there you go putting words in peoples' mouths so you can make the same old arguments again (and again and again). Other people still have quality criteria even if it's not the same as that of a hardcore fan. And for starters, one of those criteria is big guys with muscles; people really don't give much of a shit about the women. She's not even got enough of a personality for girls to get behind her like.. I dunno.. bringing Lita over 5 years ago. But that's where your "concept of quality" thing doesn't make sense then, if you're not talking about Da Movez -- the people who would buy tickets to a show headlined by Kelly Kelly wouldn't expect her to be Hulk Hogan, or Lita, or Abdullah. They'd be there because they liked Kelly's act. She's not (as far as we know) a drugged-up mess, and in theory can perform her whole routine now as well as she ever could in WWE. How well she'd draw is one thing, but her ability to meet the expectations of fans who've paid to see her isn't really in question for me. The thing about not having the WWE producers helping her might play a part, but she's been doing the Kelly Kelly match long enough now that I couldn't see her having much trouble with it. Â Completely different fans for those shitfests than you're talking about drawing on the basis of WWE name value. Are the attendance for the all-women's shows much lower than the ones that bring in Finlay or Masters etc? Do people travel for Shimmer, Eve etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsClobberingTime Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I've always been curious as to how much the ex-WWE/TNA guys actually draw over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 That was my original idea with the thread, you have to put one of them as the big name of your poster if you're doing one of the BritWres shows. You're pretty much hanging the responsibility of the gate (good or bad), on one of them. Ah ok, I went back to look but that wasn't explicitly stated. Fair enough, carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted January 4, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2013 Of course. I agreed that she would (and should) go on last. I just said that people would be disappointed. I'm not talking about moves (let alone saying that they're the most important thing) - there you go putting words in peoples' mouths so you can make the same old arguments again (and again and again). Other people still have quality criteria even if it's not the same as that of a hardcore fan. And for starters, one of those criteria is big guys with muscles; people really don't give much of a shit about the women. She's not even got enough of a personality for girls to get behind her like.. I dunno.. bringing Lita over 5 years ago. But that's where your "concept of quality" thing doesn't make sense then, if you're not talking about Da Movez -- the people who would buy tickets to a show headlined by Kelly Kelly wouldn't expect her to be Hulk Hogan, or Lita, or Abdullah. They'd be there because they liked Kelly's act. She's not (as far as we know) a drugged-up mess, and in theory can perform her whole routine now as well as she ever could in WWE. How well she'd draw is one thing, but her ability to meet the expectations of fans who've paid to see her isn't really in question for me. The thing about not having the WWE producers helping her might play a part, but she's been doing the Kelly Kelly match long enough now that I couldn't see her having much trouble with it. Â I think what I've done is kinda conflate two different points - one is that I don't actually think she would be much of a draw, and the other is that I think she would be shit. This might be what gadge was getting at when he asked the question about whether or not you're hoping for any repeat business off the back of the show. Â Completely different fans for those shitfests than you're talking about drawing on the basis of WWE name value. Are the attendance for the all-women's shows much lower than the ones that bring in Finlay or Masters etc? Do people travel for Shimmer, Eve etc? Â I've got no idea. I'm just making wild assumptions and guesses, too. But I think the overlap in the venn diagram of "extra people who came just to see the WWE name" and "people who travel for Shimmer shows" is not so big. Â Edit - one more thought on her ability to do the "generic Kelly Kelly match"; bear in mind it's not just whether or not she can do her part the way she's always done. Taking it back to the football analogy - yeah the league 2 player will be better than everyone else, but the overall quality of the game* will still be pretty shoddy. Â Â Â * her match as opposed to the whole show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The overall quality of any Sunday league game will be atrocious in comparison to a Premiership game. But you'll still get people in attendance who enjoy the Sunday league games more, and talk about how Man United would restrict a young player's abilities and train the goodness out of him if he got signed. Well that's what happens in wrestling, anyway. Â If people buy tickets for Kelly Kelly and expect her to be El Ligero or Kevin Nash, they'll be disappointed. But nobody would do that. If people don't like what Kelly Kelly does, they'll either not buy a ticket or buy one knowing they won't enjoy it. Either way (unless she starts pissing herself in the ring and wanking a snake like it's a big cock or falling over doing Wolfpac signs and discus punches), there's no reason anyone who has paid to see her would be likely to go away disappointed or feeling like she'd failed to meet expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJS269 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Are the attendance for the all-women's shows much lower than the ones that bring in Finlay or Masters etc? Do people travel for Shimmer, Eve etc? Â Depends on the company. The top womens companies have above average attendance for an Indy Show. Â Shimmer almost always sells out (Don't know how many people), and they have quite a lot of people travel for those shows. Â The ICW:FF debut show, Sold out with 300 people attending. Â And the last two EVE shows was quite busy, though they did have Winter on the first show and Angelina Love on the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Either way (unless she starts pissing herself in the ring and wanking a snake like it's a big cock or falling over doing Wolfpac signs and discus punches), there's no reason anyone who has paid to see her would be likely to go away disappointed or feeling like she'd failed to meet expectations. Are you kidding me? If that happened, Kelly would exceed expectations by a country mile, that sounds fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Has Jushin Liger wrestled in the UK after his Fuji Yamada stints in the late 1980s? Some fans/smarks would certainly travel to a Jushin Liger event, but would there be enough people willing to travel to see the masked legend? Not an easy question to answer... Â Kelly Kelly is eyecandy and a well-known "name" but would any wrestling fans travel to see her? To supplement a supercard, why not, but would she draw as the main attraction on an event? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobystag Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Seen as in this hypothetical scenario they both cost the same, let's same Mark Sloan in two different realities books each act. Â They'd be a main night show, say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Has Jushin Liger wrestled in the UK after his Fuji Yamada stints in the late 1980s? Some fans/smarks would certainly travel to a Jushin Liger event, but would there be enough people willing to travel to see the masked legend? Not an easy question to answer... Kelly Kelly is eyecandy and a well-known "name" but would any wrestling fans travel to see her? To supplement a supercard, why not, but would she draw as the main attraction on an event? I don't think so.  Indie promoters don't book imports to make money. If you've only got enough money for one name import and you're filling the rest of the card with local yokels, you're probably running a venue where it's next to impossible to break even on the cost of flying them in anyway. So just pick the one you want to meet most, like everyone else in the thread. You're right about the crux of it. Say you're running a 200 seater building in Barrow, is Liger really more likely to get 200 people on the train than Kelly is to get 200 people from the area?  In terms of real-world logistics, you're probably splitting the cost with a few other promoters around the country who are using them too. In which case, air_raid and his mates might not pick your event in Barrow when Liger's booked on three other shows, two of which are in more convenient locations for them and have four imports rather than one. But Kelly's got the name/visual recognition all over the country that doesn't just rely on a niche group travelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bellenda Carlisle Posted January 4, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted January 4, 2013 I hardly ever go to wrestling shows anymore but I'd definitely go to see Kelly Kelly if it was down south. I've seen dozens of indie/TNA/ECW/Japanese wrestlers have great matches live years ago when I followed wrestling a lot more. Now I pretty much just watch WWE and have a different group of friends to the ones I used to go to shows with so I never really even think about going. Â I'd go and see Kelly Kelly though, and get a polaroid with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I wonder if she's ever signed that sink picture. Someone's bound to have printed it out and taken it to an appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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