The Ultimate Fighter 17: 'Team Jones vs Team Sonnen'

[Egg Shen]

Sonnensnse for life surely, im not sure how it works but is he a UFC employee or a Fox employee when he does the punditry?

[Supremo]

Sonnen's already secured a full time slot as the host of UFC Tonight. He's set for life, whether it's with FOX or the UFC.

 

I thought his interview on FX was brilliant. Different, but still great. Particularly when he started bouncing off Rogan. It's always a good laugh when Chael will rattle off some nonsense, then someone will call him on it, and he'll act like an 80's heel manager and weasel his way out of it, struggling to keep a straight face. The best example was before the first Anderson fight when he spoke about running for office and getting 99.6% of the vote. Ariel Helwani asked if that was the race in which he ran unopposed..."That is correct." Chael's the best. I honestly feel bad for anyone who gets sucked in and fails to get the joke.

[David]

Chael's the best. I honestly feel bad for anyone who gets sucked in and fails to get the joke.

I doubt there's anyone on this forum who doesn't get what he's doing, after all this is a pro wrestling board. We know how it works. A few of us simply don't think he should be able to talk himself into bouts that he's not earned, especially when he's getting fights against guys that he's simply not good enough to compete with.

 

Hopefully when he gets crushed by Jones he gets shifted away from the upper echelon of any division he competes in, where he belongs. I'd love to see him go up against Belfort next if I'm honest. That's a bout that makes sense, either at 185lbs or 205lbs.

[Supremo]

Chael's the best. I honestly feel bad for anyone who gets sucked in and fails to get the joke.

I doubt there's anyone on this forum who doesn't get what he's doing, after all this is a pro wrestling board..

I didn't specify people on this board. I meant in general. All those MMA fans who get riled up and have hissy fits when he calls himself undefeated and whatnot. We've all read and seen of them. They're too busy taking everything so fucking seriously that they can't tell that it's a joke that everyone but them is in on, it's done for fun, and you're not supposed to take it seriously. The streets of Oregon aren't really mean. He doesn't really think he relinquished the middleweight title to Anderson in order to move up a weight class. It's a joke used to entertain and build up interest.

 

Someone described it perfectly on here a few months back; Chael must be a nightmare if you've got Aspergers.

[David]

Yeah, there are some really cringeworthy types out there. These types are probably the guys that CM Punk talks about when he says he has to be careful who he trains BJJ with, as you'll get those who want to hurt the "fake ass motherfucker wrestler".

[ColinBollocks]

Anybody that doesn't like or get Sonnen is no friend of mine. His ability may be questionable, inside the Octagon (he's still pretty great), but there is absolutely no doubt he's King outside it. His level of intelligence when it comes to hyping and talking is bordering on genius; super quick and always quotable.

 

That's why I think this Jones 'buddy' routine is part of the Sonnen game. Jones clearly doesn't know how to take him.

[David]

That's why I think this Jones 'buddy' routine is part of the Sonnen game. Jones clearly doesn't know how to take him.

It won't matter though, will it? What's the point in playing mind games with someone that you can't even come close to competing with on a physical level? Chael can play all the games he wants, but come fight time he'll get smashed regardless.

 

As I said, if he was operating at a level where you could actually believe what he was doing/saying could help him win the fight, then excellent. But he isn't, and it won't. He's been elevated to the level he's at now simply because he can talk. I don't get excited or hyped up by anything he says because I know he isn't going to win when it comes fight time.

 

Once he gets beaten by Jones I'm hoping he picks up on this feud with Vitor Belfort. That's a fight that is at his level, and one that he could win. I'll have more interest in his mind games in the build up to that bout, because he's actually competing against someone he could beat, and those mind games may make all the difference.

[Supremo]

In an ideal world, Chael would defeat Jones by some type of fluke, at which point the MMA community would implode almost as badly as it did when Brock kept killing everyone. Easily my favourite time in UFC history was when Brock came in and kept murdering whoever was currently being positioned as MMA's saviour.

 

By its own merits his run was great, but the reaction from MMA hardcores made it all the more enjoyable. Heath Herring is a veteran, he'll show Brock what MMA is all about....then he gets literally ridden like a horse, with Brock laughing his tits off. OK, Randy is the greatest, he'll put an end to this stupidity....then Brock caves his temple in and secures the belt! Mir beat him once so he'll beat him again....then Brock smashes him into oblivion and gets on top of his wife to celebrate. But hey, there's still Shane Carwin, right? Nope. The guy who's killed everyone in the first round gets taken into the second and get submitted! With each passing victory the hardcore outrage got worse, whereas my smile just got bigger. Such a brilliant ride whilst it lasted. I'd love for Chael to score a Serra-style upset and generate similar reactions and excitement. Can you imagine his fucking post-fight promo? Jesus.

[David]

In an ideal world, Chael would defeat Jones by some type of fluke, at which point the MMA community would implode almost as badly as it did when Brock kept killing everyone.

The Lesnar run was very carefully planned out though, to ensure that he drew as much dollars as possible before he eventually had to face one of the top guys and have his aura of invincibilty shattered. I'm not sure that's possible with Sonnen, as he's being moved straight from the top of one division and an opponent who is completely out of his class, to another division where the story is the same.

 

Had he been carefully booked in the 205lbs division until such a point where he had to face the top guys, he could have had a hell of a run. Imagine seeing Sonnen go head to head with the likes of Shogun, Rampage (this should definately have happened), little Nog etc? All bouts that he could feasibly have won, which would have added even more to his pre-fight hype gimmick.

 

In fact, instead of sending Rampage packing against Glover, can you imagine if they had signed up a Sonnen vs Rampage season of TUF preceeding a bout between the two? That would have been fucking fantastic.

[wandshogun09]

As much as people rag on Chael for talking his way into big fights, it's the UFC who give him the fights. It's not Chael's fault if 4 or 5 other guys turned the fight down. You can't blame Chael for making the most of the situation.

 

As for the fight, yeah he'll lose. He'll lose decisively. Even he must knowhis chances are very slim. But Chael's probably not got many years left as an active fighter so why not cash in on the money fights while he can? He has a cushy post fight career as a FOX/UFC analyst waiting for him when he calls it a day.

 

The way Chael's probably looking at it is , he can't match up to Jones physically, so fuck with him mentally. Jones has no physical weakness as far as we can tell. Mentally he hasn't dealt with someone like Chael before. People forget he's only been fighting about 4/5 years.

 

Jones will win. I don't see what Chael can do to him. The routes to victory are blocked. But Chael's gotta try something.

[ColinBollocks]

That's why I think this Jones 'buddy' routine is part of the Sonnen game. Jones clearly doesn't know how to take him.

It won't matter though, will it? What's the point in playing mind games with someone that you can't even come close to competing with on a physical level? Chael can play all the games he wants, but come fight time he'll get smashed regardless.

I'm sure it matters to Sonnen, as he tries to find an edge. Sonnen is aware of the skill level he faces, but I'm sure he also feels he can find a way to beat Jones.

 

Everybody with a bit of MMA knowledge expects Jones to win (like they do with most of his fight, these days). More people are inclined to pay to see a star like Sonnen get beat up by Jones, rather than another fighter, like Macheda.

 

Can you imagine his fucking post-fight promo? Jesus.

I'm calling this ahead of time, the Greatest Moment in MMA History.

[Supremo]

In an ideal world, Chael would defeat Jones by some type of fluke, at which point the MMA community would implode almost as badly as it did when Brock kept killing everyone.

The Lesnar run was very carefully planned out though, to ensure that he drew as much dollars as possible before he eventually had to face one of the top guys and have his aura of invincibilty shattered.

No it wasn't. That's what anti-Lesnar guys say now in retrospect, but that's not what they were saying at the time. At the time, they all considered Randy, Carwin and Mir to be top guys. As did the UFC brass. He wasn't protected at all. He was constantly positioned against guys that everyone considered the number one contender (with hardcore fans rejoicing each time that this would be the guy to save the sport) and it was just lucky for the UFC that for a year or so he kept managing to beat them. I distinctly remember polls leading up to each of his fights where everyone was 50/50 on who would win because of each opponents accomplishments. Randy was the current champ who beat everyone when he wasn't supposed to. Mir was the guy who'd just knocked out Noguiera and already had a victory over Brock. Carwin was the beast who killed everyone, including Mir, in the first round. They weren't planning anything. He just went against whoever was next in line. Then won.

 

Sure, Dana looked bummed out when Brock finally lost, but it wasn't as if they hadn't been putting him through his paces up until that point. And it's not as if they kept him away from Cain in order to protect him. If they were, then why did they book that fight at all? Cain got his shot as and when he earned it and was logically next in line. Same with Dos Santos. They may have come up around about the same time, with the Heavyweight division accordingly improving due to their insurgence, but at the time when Brock fought he was facing guys who the majority believed were legitimate threats. It's bullshit to go back now and argue that the Noguiera that Mir beat had a staph infection, or that Randy had gotten old, or that Carwin had no stamina, etc, because at the time nobody was thinking that. They all considered them top guys.

[wandshogun09]

Brock was given hard fights throughout. People make the mistake of looking at Brock's record now and judging the guys he beat based on where they are now instead of where they were then.

 

Take Carwin for example. People discredit that win now with Carwin coming off losses, layoffs and being on his last legs. At the time it was a different story. Carwin was wrecking shop before he fought Brock,. No-one got out of round 1, he was trying to put judges out of work. On paper he was a guy who was thought big enough to handle Brock's strength, a good enough wrestler to keep it standing and a much better striker with stupid KO power. On paper Brock was pretty fucked. Then Brock beats him and all of a sudden Carwin was a 'favourable match up'. Balls to that.

 

You see this with Fedor's record as well. Sure he fought Zulu and Ogawa. People talk like that's all he did. It's like they look at Fedor's record now, see wins over Nog and Cro Cop and judge those wins as if it was the Nog and Cro Cop of today he beat.

[jimufctna24]

Brock had a hard as fuck schedule, nothing planned about it.

 

If they had put him against I dunno, Hardonk, Jame Thompson and then Justin Eilers to build him up, then maybe you could have a point. But, Mir, Herring, Couture and Carwin in a row before he got "exposed" by the guy who may just be the best HW ever, disproves that theory.

 

Mir and Carwin were top 5 at the time, Randy was top 10 and Herring was top 15. That is not a planned route. Kimbo Slice is a planned route.

 

In his short career Brock had one can in his first fight, as Wand said guys like Fedor had plenty. As did Nog, Wanderlai and many others.

[ColinBollocks]

Lesnar also had to spend a couple of years fighting his illness inbetween his fights with the likes of Carwin and Velasquez. While those guys were training every day, Lesnar was trying his best not to die. Lesser men never would have returned. If Dana was really fixing Lesnar up with easy fights, then surely he'd have given Lesnar easier fights, post-surgery etc.