UFC 154: 'St Pierre vs Condit'

[Supremo]

If that is true and a genuine reflection of the fanbase as a whole, then the UFC promotion has backfired and I stand corrected.

It won't be a reflection of the fanbase as a whole. If they book GSP vs. Silva it'll be a huge success for the company.

Of course it will. It'll make Dana and the Fertittas shitloads of cash, which is all that matters, right? As long as those PPV numbers are attractive then who gives a shit? Sure, St-Pierre will make some good money from it too, but enough to warrant him getting a complete fucking pasting? Will he still be as viable a commodity after that?

Of course he will. There's loads of examples in MMA wherein losing one or two fights doesn't harm your ability to draw. MMA fans as a whole understand how the game works and don't abandon their favourites after a single loss. Look at how well Chuck continued to draw long after his chin went. In fact, for a better historical example, look at BJ Penn. He had a dream fight with GSP, got fucking destroyed, and yet continued to draw just as well afterwards, if not better than he did before. If anything, being in that dream fight arguably made him an even bigger draw, despite the, "complete fucking pasting," he received. He returned to the 155 division, continued to dominate there, and continued to draw. GSP could do exactly the same.

 

Plus, it's Georges St-Pierre. He's a fucking phenom in terms of business. Practically nothing is going to stop him drawing.

[Dead Mike]

Personally, if we're going to see Anderson involved in a 'super-fight' I'd much rather see Silva/Jones for the sole reason it'll be a far more competetive bout. There's no real need for GSP to fight Silva, especially when he's still got legit contenders at 170.

These high profile squash matches (Silva/Bonnar, Jones/Sonnen & Silva/GSP) might seem interesting on paper but one sided fights reek of the worst of boxing/Japanese MMA to me.

 

Edit - Before anyone jumps on that. I know Silva/Bonnar was because of the circumstances but the end result is still the same.

[David]

Well, if he believed that himself he wouldn't be so apprehensive about taking the fight, would he? Check the quote from the post-fight press conference. He clearly doesn't think he'll be big enough to cope with Silva.

 

The safe bet is him continuing to be non-committal until the May date that Dana mentioned is too close to put it together.

 

A quick question Supremo, do you actually give a fuck about the fight itself? Or just the build and the primetime show we'll get for it? Whenever you talk about fights you want to see it's never from the point of view of who you think will win, how you think it'll play out or whatever, you're always concerned with PPV numbers, fake trash talking, buildup shows and the like.

 

You actually think that Anderson Silva vs GSP will be a competitive fight?

[Supremo]

A quick question Supremo, do you actually give a fuck about the fight itself?

Yeah, I'd love to see it. Why, would you not? Genuine question. If that fight gets booked, would you not be excited to see it? Would you sulk throughout, wishing it was against Johnny Hendricks instead?

 

A quick question Supremo, do you actually give a fuck about the fight itself? Or just the build and the primetime show we'll get for it? Whenever you talk about fights you want to see it's never from the point of view of who you think will win, how you think it'll play out or whatever, you're always concerned with PPV numbers, fake trash talking, buildup shows and the like.

The reason I often talk about numbers (other than because I enjoy following the business) is for the simple fact that what's going to happen in a fight is almost impossible to discuss, whereas numbers are something tangible. It's MMA. It's a game of inches in which very few things are absolute, where anything can happen in a split second. Matt Serra won a title. Houston Alexander killed people. Flukes occur in this sport probably more than in any other, which makes it hard to predict, but then all the more exciting. Of course I care about what happens in the cage, but I very rarely predict because it's so hard to do so and there's very few instances where ten times out of ten the same result will occur.

 

You actually think that Anderson Silva vs GSP will be a competitive fight?

I think Anderson would win, but I'd still give Georges a chance, and that variable of not knowing for certain is the very reason I'd want to see it. Both guys have killed everyone in their divisions for years, Anderson's biggest weakness is wrestling, while Georges is arguably the best wrestler in the sport, and as such I'd love to see them go against one another. Of course the weight will play a factor, I'm not denying or ignoring that, but then that's just another variable that interests me. Could Georges' wrestling overcome the size difference? Could his ridiculous athleticism match Silva's freaky reflexes? It's something I'd be super excited to see.

 

On that subject, since everyone's talking about what weight Georges would go into the cage against Anderson at, what do people think the weight difference was between BJ and GSP at UFC 94? Georges didn't seem to have a problem signing up for that fight, yet I bet he weighed considerably more than BJ come fight time.

[David]

A quick question Supremo, do you actually give a fuck about the fight itself?

Yeah, I'd love to see it. Why, would you not? Genuine question. If that fight gets booked, would you not be excited to see it?

Not really, no. It would be a complete mismatch in my eyes.

 

Would you sulk throughout, wishing it was against Johnny Hendricks instead?

No, but I wouldn't be amped up to see it. If I was a US based fan I'd certainly not be throwing down hard earned cash unless the undercard was something special.

 

On that subject, since everyone's talking about what weight Georges would go into the cage against Anderson at, what do people think the weight difference was between BJ and GSP at UFC 94? Georges didn't seem to have a problem signing up for that fight, yet I bet he weighed considerably more than BJ come fight time.

Yeah, and that was BJ Penn's mistake for taking such a fight, wasn't it? I'm not blaming Anderson for wanting to make money in the easiest way possible, which is why he won't take the Jon Jones fight and would rather fight a smaller St-Pierre.

 

Could Georges wrestling overcome the size difference? Can his ridiculous athleticism match Silva's freaky reflexes? It's something I'd be super excited to see.

His ridiculous athleticism will be reduced somewhat by him having to bulk up to a ridiculous level in order to even compete with Silva, who will be closer to the 200lbs mark come fightnight.

[Egg Shen]

ive always fancied GSP's chances against Silva myself. If i had to pick a superfight id lean towards Jones-Silva but if this fight happens, you can bet your last turd that i'll be on board.

[David]

ive always fancied GSP's chances against Silva myself. If i had to pick a superfight id lean towards Jones-Silva but if this fight happens, you can bet your last turd that i'll be on board.

Don't get me wrong, I'll watch it. But I watch pretty much every UFC fight anyway. Will I be excited about it? Not really if i'm being honest. I believe St-Pierre would be lucky to last three frames with Anderson, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him get fucked up in a major way.

 

Perhaps more important is the way that St-Pierre himself has been talking about the fight. I don't think he believes he can win it. He'd be beaten before the thing even started.

[Supremo]

ive always fancied GSP's chances against Silva myself. If i had to pick a superfight id lean towards Jones-Silva but if this fight happens, you can bet your last turd that i'll be on board.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'd be super excited to see Silva vs. Jones too, but as someone said earlier, it's not a case of having to see one or the other. There's no need for people to keep saying which one they'd be more interested in. We can see both. And right now, with Jones busy with Sonnen, the fight that can be made is GSP vs. Silva.

 

Same with people saying they'd be more excited for a Diaz fight. That's something I'd love to see too but, again, it's not something that can be made right now, whereas GSP vs. Silva is. When talking about making fights, all Dana ever says is that timing is everything and that if schedules and cycles don't match up then fights might never happen. Right now, more than ever, it's the perfect timing for GSP vs. Silva. They're both coming off wins, their training cycles are in synch, they're arguably bigger stars than ever before, and it's now or never in terms of making a fight that people have wanted to see for years. I mean, fucking hell, how long ago was that Abu Dhabi fight where people were chanting, "GSP! GSP!" at Silva? It feels like we've waited forever for this fight. I hope Dana throws millions of dollars at Georges in order to make him accept. It'll be fucking amazing. And I'm so glad my tastes are such that I get excited by such fights. This fight? In a fucking 100,000 seat stadium? I might explode.

 

I think Hardy will end up fighting Matt Riddle next. Riddle was talking about fighting Hardy months ago and he's been even more vocal about it here...

 

 

and here...

 

I like it.

I like it too!

 

Riddle comes across as such a nice guy, it's impossible not to root for him. I'd definitely make that Dan Hardy fight next.

[Egg Shen]

Riddles a bad matchup for Hardy but i wanna see it. There seems to be a playful banter between the two that would warm up nicely towards fight time.

[wandshogun09]

Anyone who is even half-smart to how an actual MMA bout works will know that St-Pierre has virtually no chance of winning.

 

I guess I'm not even half smart about MMA then

 

Sorry Dave but that's a ridiculous comment. St Pierre has been untouchable at 170 for years. He's barely lost a round in the last fuck knows how many years. If no-one at 170 can beat him I think it's logical that people would want to see him test himself at a higher weight and if he's gonna do that why not fight the best? That way if he loses he lost to the best.

 

You actually think that Anderson Silva vs GSP will be a competitive fight?

 

Anderson would rightly be the favourite in the fight, I get that. But people going on like this is some huge mismatch and GSP has no chance is ludicrous.

 

Why do you think Anderson doesn't want to fight Jon Jones? Because he knows that it's pretty much a given that he won't be able to win the fight. He knows this, and he's smart enough to not take the fight.

 

Well if Anderson's chances vs Jones are so slim then why does everyone want that fight? Not saying I don't but if people's problems with GSP vs Anderson is that the smaller man can't win, then aren't they the same problems that would surround a Silva vs Jones fight?

 

Anderson has already softened his stance on fighting Jones already. And there's only been serious talk about it for a few months. He's already saying "Maybe". GSP's still arsing about and umming and ahhing about the Silva fight after well over 3 years of people talking about it.

 

I think Anderson would absolutely take a fight with Jones. It may require Dana upping his money but I think he'd do it. That's not the issue here though, that fight isn't on the table because Jones is tied up with Chael. Silva vs GSP is the fight that's on the table and Jones has nothing to do with it.

 

Plus, it's Georges St-Pierre. He's a fucking phenom in terms of business. Practically nothing is going to stop him drawing.

 

Yeah people won't just suddenly stop wanting to see GSP fight again just because Anderson beat him. If anything it might raise people's interest to see him fight even more to see how he bounces back. Plus, it would be a loss at a higher weight. It wouldn't hurt his standing at 170 at all. Just like BJ was still seen as unbeatable at 155 after UFC 94.

 

The safe bet is him continuing to be non-committal until the May date that Dana mentioned is too close to put it together.

 

Or, he could have just nipped this all in the bud months or even years ago and said "I'm happy to fight at 170 until I retire. Sorry but the fight with Anderson probably won't happen unless he drops to welterweight." Instead, he's been going "Maybe" and "We'll see" and "One day" and "I'll have to talk to my team".

 

Just fucking say no if you don't want the fight. If he just came right out and said "I'm not fighting Anderson. Ever" then I honestly would think better of him than this bollocks he's currently doing of stringing everyone along.

 

Yeah, and that was BJ Penn's mistake for taking such a fight, wasn't it? I'm not blaming Anderson for wanting to make money in the easiest way possible, which is why he won't take the Jon Jones fight and would rather fight a smaller St-Pierre.

 

Easiest way possible? Is GSP seen as that easy a fight now? Even for Anderson that's a bit of a stretch to just say GSP would be no bother at all for him.

 

And remember Anderson is 37. I know he doesn't seem it but one day he will, and that day could come at anytime. When/if that day comes whoever beats him will go down as the man who stopped the Spider's reign of terror. If that someone was GSP that would be even more impressive due to him being smaller.

 

His ridiculous athleticism will be reduced somewhat by him having to bulk up to a ridiculous level in order to even compete with Silva, who will be closer to the 200lbs mark come fightnight.

 

The weight thing is overblown in my opinion. Yes he's bigger but I don't buy the 230lbs stuff at all. Fucking Cheick Kongo weighs about 230. Anderson does not. Anderson didn't even make 205 against Bonnar, he came in at 203. And that was at a fight at LHW in which he was trying to bulk up.

 

But we're supposed to believe Anderson could weigh in at 177 for a GSP catchweight fight, then put on 53lbs overnight to make 230? No chance.

 

On the night it would probably be something like Anderson at 200-205 and GSP at 185-190. Still a size advantage but nowhere near what people are making out in my opinion.

 

Basically, I can't believe we're finally within reach of the biggest fight in UFC history and people are saying they don't want to see it. It boggles my mind.

 

EDIT - I realise you didn't say 230 Dave, but GSP was claiming that at the press conference.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Theoretically, GSP's wrestling should negate or even up the size disadvantage. He's often touted as having the best MMA wrestling, and the right technique makes it possible to effectively grapple against bigger opponents. In fact, that is a key component of judo, another discipline I believe GSP is proficient in. Anderson isn't noted for having legendary TDD, Sonnen controlled the fuck out of him for 4.5 rounds on the juice, and a solid round when clean. It would definitely be an interesting fight.

 

However, I'm more interested in Anderson vs. Jones. Anderson is absolutely capable of beating Jones. Jones would be slightly heavier at fight time, but it's not the size discrepancy of Anderson/GSP. Jones is more prone to taking risks though, so I think we'd see more wild striking exchanges and some crazy ground work. It'd be like Tekken meets the Matrix, total video game style.

[Egg Shen]

im slow as fuck with my thoughts but here they are:

 

* GSP/Condit was a classic title fight, just a bloody war where both guys left it all in the cage and you can't ask for anything more than that. Condit's one of them figthers who doesn't see being on his back as being a disadvantagous position, as soon as he hits the ground he's working from the bottom, you can't take a second off against him. That 3rd round was heart stopping stuff, the headkick was ridiculous, no wonder GSP didn't see it, Condit threw it from a ridculous position. I'm happy to see that people aint getting on GSP for not finishing again (i thought they might), but you can't question question either guys desire to want to win that fight.

 

* Johny Hendricks just has a different kind of power in his fists...it's the epitome of heavy-handedness. It doesn't even look like much, the punches that KO'd both Kampmann and Fitch were very similar, just a leaping left hook, neither guys head snapped back in violent fashion but it just f'n ended them, it's a scary thing. No one can question Hendrick's no.1 contender status Waldburger, Pierce, Fitch, Koscheck, Kampmann in a row, that's as good a list that anyone has beaten on route to a shot at the title.

 

Gutted for Kampmann.

 

* Francis Carmont won but it feels like a fight that put him backwards, he didn't show any of the potential people were thinking he had. I credit the pressure the Shockmaster put on him for that and i actually scored the fight 30-27 for Lawlor. I don't think Carmont did enough to win the rounds, all he did was throw a few kicks and had a had a few lame kimura attempts, the rest of the time he was defending.

 

* Rafael Dos Anjos was the breakout performance of the night for me. Dos Anjos has always had potential and he's had some great UFC moments but i think he'd fallen into that middle-tier category where people think he'll probably stay but he's slowly shown he's getting better and he's developed into an unlikely contender. He handled Bocek with what looked like relative ease and there's no many (if any) that have done that. Dos Anjos deserves a top 5 guy next in my opinion. Gray Maynard?

 

* Gotta geel a bit for Mark Hominic, he's on a terrible streak now but he's just getten beaten up in these fights. Hominick always comes out of a fight looking like shit, poor fucker. I do think he'll get 1 more shot (one of the rare few that survives after 4 defeats). Garza is a dangerous guy in the smaller weight classes his height makes him a unique challenge, and he's even talking of cutting to 135!

 

* Cote/Sakara was as advertised, i don't think anyone expected Sakara to actually hurt Cote but he rocked him bad. The stoppage was all confusion, Big Dan got it wrong, and whilst he did warn Sakara about strikes to the back of the head the impression i got is that he jumped in, not to stop the fight cause of the punches to the back of the head but to just stop the fight cause he thought Cote was done. It did all happen so fast though so i'll give the big lug a pass. Rematch please.

 

* I didn't see it, but John Maguire lost again, i know on here we all talked of him cutting to 155 after the hathaway loss because he's a bit undersized as 170, Maguire has since announced that he is making a move...to 185!

[Dai]

About GSP's "177 to 185" comment, Im pretty sure I remember reading an interview last year/two years ago with GSP and his trainers, where they specifically talked about how he had really focused on his weight cutting, and that he was easily cutting 20-25lb's with his new system. Seems like a strange quote to make, when he was surely floating around the 185 mark against Condit.

[wandshogun09]

I was just coming to post about Maguire Ebb. Yeah it's a baffling choice. He's just lost 2 fights at 170 to bigger guys so he decides to move up to 185 to fight even bigger opposition?

 

And the sad thing is I think he's got some potential. He's not a big guy, about 5'8/9ish and looks like he could shed the weight to make 155. I think he'd be much more effective at lightweight. The UFC 185 division has some monsters in it. I think Maguire's UFC days are numbered.

[David]

Sorry Dave but that's a ridiculous comment. St Pierre has been untouchable at 170 for years. He's barely lost a round in the last fuck knows how many years. If no-one at 170 can beat him I think it's logical that people would want to see him test himself at a higher weight and if he's gonna do that why not fight the best? That way if he loses he lost to the best.

No one can touch him at 170lbs? I think both Hendricks & Diaz would argue with that statement. I think his aim is not to lose to anyone, regardless of them being the best or not. He's a safety-first fighter, who is working with a team of coaches who operate in the same way.

 

This isn't boxing, the higher weight isn't 7lbs, it's over a stone. He'd be facing a guy who cuts down to 185lbs, and who can and has competed at 205lbs without much problem.

 

Well if Anderson's chances vs Jones are so slim then why does everyone want that fight? Not saying I don't but if people's problems with GSP vs Anderson is that the smaller man can't win, then aren't they the same problems that would surround a Silva vs Jones fight?

If St-Pierre hadn't been out for 18 months with a career threatening knee injury, and had previously fought at 185lbs with the same success he'd had at 170lbs then I'd be all for it. He hasn't though, and the middleweight that he's being asked to fight is a guy who has already went up in weight himself and fought at 205lbs.

 

Anderson has already softened his stance on fighting Jones already. And there's only been serious talk about it for a few months. He's already saying "Maybe". GSP's still arsing about and umming and ahhing about the Silva fight after well over 3 years of people talking about it.

And? Just because "people" are talking about the fight doesn't mean St-Pierre has to address it, does it? He only really has to answer to the UFC, and he'll do that over the coming weeks.

 

Yeah people won't just suddenly stop wanting to see GSP fight again just because Anderson beat him. If anything it might raise people's interest to see him fight even more to see how he bounces back. Plus, it would be a loss at a higher weight. It wouldn't hurt his standing at 170 at all. Just like BJ was still seen as unbeatable at 155 after UFC 94.

BJ Penn basically stuffed his face with more food in order to make 170lbs though, and it told on him. If you've been listening to St-Pierre when he discusses this issue he's always made it clear that he wouldn't be willing to just bulk up on the quick and would want to do it properly.

 

That was before the knee injury. The guy had his fucking ACL reconstructed. This type of injury restricts movement and the abilty to change direction at the best of time. I know the UFC were giving it the "he's back, better than ever!!" and all that shite, but the truth is that he isn't and he can't be. You don't come back from that kind of injury at the same level as before.

 

He'll know that by bulking up he's going to lose speed and agility anyway (and he's mentioned that), and the effects of the knee injury are simply going to amplify that problem. I know these are boring, stupid little things that the likes of Dana White don't want the fans to think about when he's trying to ensure they plonk down their $60 to see the fight, but it's the kind of thing that St-Pierre and his team will be considering, and rightfully so.

 

The truth is, St-Pierre may take the fight due to White and the UFC pressuring him into it, but he won't win. Listen to him talking about it just now. He's giving us all the reasons why he shouldn't take the fight, and all the reasons why Anderson would win. He's already lost the fight in his head before a contract is signed.

 

If he's smart and he listens to his team he fights Hendricks then looks to build to a huge fight with Nick Diaz.