Paid Members ShortOrderCook Posted October 18, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 So Ryback wins, then what? He's got nobody to face him afterward besides Punk and Punk can't keep losing to him constantly leading to the Rumble. Ziggler and Del Rio wouldn't be taken seriously and are tied up in the World Title, as is Big Show. Again Menry would be great if he returned and targeted him but that's temporary. Â The next series of PPVs are fucking perfect to continue to build Ryback and have Punk somehow avoid him each time until he eventually can't. I don't see how much it achieves in sticking the belt on him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted October 18, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 Cleetus has nailed it. There's a lot of fantasy booking regarding how to not have Ryback win the belt. If that was the thought going into it, he should never have been put in the match to start with. If he fails at Hell in the Cell, will those fans who like him still be into him when he chokes? Even if he keeps his heat, he still didn't win the belt. WCW always did this and TNA always do this. I've seen it a million times. They put someone in a position where they can't be possibly be exposed or they die or their arse, and it all goes tits up. Ryback can't be judged with the same type of logic if it was someone else in his position, because its something they didn't plan. They didn't know how or why he suddenly got over huge, so I hope they know why people want to remain cheering for him. Its a miracle he's over with no long matches and zero verbal ability. People are so into him. They've always pushed him, but their idea was to slowly build him. The fans have chosen him as a star. WWE didn't choose him. If they fuck this up, Ryback isn't going to be over like he is now.  I'm confident that Vince is still into big men to the point that he's going to do the right thing by Ryback and not cock this up. I don't agree with that at all. The reason he started to get over this strong was because WWE had him be the only bloke that has come to the rescue of the legends Punk has threatened or slapped about - plus, the key people have done a grand job selling Ryback as a scary monster. They started pushing him hard when Cena had his surgery, which I doubt is coincidence. Granted, I'm sure they're thrilled with the response he's getting (and they rushed him up the card), but to say WWE didn't plan this isn't giving them enough credit.  Personally, I'm happy for this to go either way. Although, I'm much more up for The Rock v CM Punk at the Rumble, purely because the promo side of things won't all be on The Rock plugging his bloody twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted October 18, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 So Ryback wins, then what? He's got nobody to face him afterward besides Punk and Punk can't keep losing to him constantly leading to the Rumble. Ziggler and Del Rio wouldn't be taken seriously and are tied up in the World Title, as is Big Show. Again Menry would be great if he returned and targeted him but that's temporary. The next series of PPVs are fucking perfect to continue to build Ryback and have Punk somehow avoid him each time until he eventually can't. I don't see how much it achieves in sticking the belt on him now. You've just answered your own question there. WWE has no talent anymore. There's Cena, CM Punk, a bunch of special attraction draws who are never there and a roster full of losers. If Ryback wins and he wins at height of his popularity, it establishes him as a winner. And a winner is something that is rare in 2012. If he loses and ends with a fuck finish, he's just another bloke who failed when the people invested in him. They could have a new star on their hands if they protect him.  Which they probably wont.  The reason he started to get over this strong was because WWE had him be the only bloke that has come to the rescue of the legends Punk has threatened or slapped about - plus, the key people have done a grand job selling Ryback as a scary monster. They started pushing him hard when Cena had his surgery, which I doubt is coincidence. Granted, I'm sure they're thrilled with the response he's getting (and they rushed him up the card), but to say WWE didn't plan this isn't giving them enough credit. The reason they put him in that position because he suddenly started getting huge reactions on the road and at the arenas. They never suddenly changed tact and put him in the main event on a whim. If this was some big masterplan, they wouldn't find themselves booked into a corner, risking changing year long plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ShortOrderCook Posted October 18, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 So Ryback wins, then what? He's got nobody to face him afterward besides Punk and Punk can't keep losing to him constantly leading to the Rumble. Ziggler and Del Rio wouldn't be taken seriously and are tied up in the World Title, as is Big Show. Again Menry would be great if he returned and targeted him but that's temporary. The next series of PPVs are fucking perfect to continue to build Ryback and have Punk somehow avoid him each time until he eventually can't. I don't see how much it achieves in sticking the belt on him now. You've just answered your own question there. WWE has no talent anymore. There's Cena, CM Punk, a bunch of special attraction draws who are never there and a roster full of losers. If Ryback wins and he wins at height of his popularity, it establishes him as a winner. And a winner is something that is rare in 2012. If he loses and ends with a fuck finish, he's just another bloke who failed when the people invested in him. They could have a new star on their hands if they protect him.  Right, but then what if he's nobody to challenge and face following and there's no other available stars? It will be all for nothing and potentially damage other plans too. Where does it go from there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted October 18, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 I never said it was a big long term masterplan ("they rushed him up the card"), but they clearly shat it when Cena needed surgery and went with Ryback, just in case. He's been in angles all month with Punk/Vince/Foley/JR and looking strong for a reason. I also wouldn't say the fans were clamoring for a Ryback main event run, pre-Cena injury either. WWE did a great job with getting Ryback ready, this past month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted October 18, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 Right, but then what if he's nobody to challenge and face following and there's no other available stars? It will be all for nothing and potentially damage other plans too. Where does it go from there? If they build you as a big attraction, you don't need big name challengers as much. You could put Ziggler in there with Ryback and the Big Show or Mark Henry or a heel Randy Orton. If he catches on (which is he well on the way to), people just want to see him destroy people. Ryback hasn't actually wrestled anyone. Anyone he faces wouldn't be a rehash. I'd rather them try and fail, than not try and ruin someone who had the potential to break out. Â I never said it was a big long term masterplan ("they rushed him up the card"), but they clearly shat it when Cena needed surgery and went with Ryback, just in case. He's been in angles all month with Punk/Vince/Foley/JR and looking strong for a reason. I also wouldn't say the fans were clamoring for a Ryback main event run, pre-Cena injury either. WWE did a great job with getting Ryback ready, this past month. He got over and they put him in a position the fans wanted him to be in. That isn't a great job. That's what they should be doing. Standards must have fallen greatly if that is seen as a "great job". The great job will be if Punk can get 20 minutes out of him. They've booked themselves into a corner massively. Â You know, they could have had him go undefeated all the way to WrestleMania and wrestle the Undertaker. An undefeated monster vs the Undertaker's streak would have been insane. But he's either losing at the PPV or winning and losing down the road. Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted October 18, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 I'm puzzled why you're begrudging in giving WWE praise for making a limited bloke one of the hottest acts in wrestling . They've got this one spot on, so far. And standards have fallen, hence Vince demoting long term creative members and telling the staff to get their finger out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted October 18, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 I don't get what's so puzzling. The build for Batista's face turn was a great job. In this case they put someone who is over in a position to draw money against the champion. If all goes well at the PPV, then its a "great job". But there's an 8 page thread filled with posts about how not to fuck this up. You can't judge how well this is until after the Hell in the Cell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members unfitfinlay Posted October 18, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 At the very least, I hope this is the beginning of the end of the "Gimmick Match" PPV concept. It's bad enough that they're booked into a corner with Ryback but the fact that it's got to be in a Hell In A Cell match makes it much much worse. Â If they aren't going to have Ryback go over cleanly then they better have something really creative planned because it'll be impossible to keep his momentum going if he can't get the job done in a match that is designed to ensure a clean finish. Â In saying that, I can still see them doing a Dusty Finish with Ryback getting stripped of the Title the next night on RAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 18, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 You know, they could have had him go undefeated all the way to WrestleMania and wrestle the Undertaker. An undefeated monster vs the Undertaker's streak would have been insane. But he's either losing at the PPV or winning and losing down the road. Shame. Â I have to agree with hallicks on this one: Â If they could keep Rybacks streak going and strong, what are people's opinion on a Streak vs Streak match at 'Mania with Undertaker? Not saying that it will happen or thats what they should do, I just wondered what the thoughts would be on it. Â 20 years of history steak vs 5 mins of squash victories steak. Not buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted October 18, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 That's a simple and quite daft way of looking at it, though. People like Ryback. And if he remained undefeated until April, a match between an over star who has never lost and a legend who has never lost at WrestleMania would create far more interest than another Triple H vs Undertaker match. Results matter, even in a fake sport. People were throwing babies in the air because Ryback is wrestling a bloke who looks like a homeless person on a show nobody was ever going to buy until the other week. Fuck knows what they'd do if the Undertaker got in his face. Â The story writes itself. Undertaker was once a young, unstoppable, undefeated monster. The new kid looking to knock the old bloke off his perch never fails. In any form of entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 18, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 That's a simple and quite daft way of looking at it, though. People like Ryback. And if he remained undefeated until April, a match between an over star who has never lost and a legend who has never lost at WrestleMania would create far more interest than another Triple H vs Undertaker match. Results matter, even in a fake sport. Â Simple, but not daft. Yes, he's over, but Taker is several times more over, and there is potential that people might go off Ryback just by having him put in the same ring as UT. Â Comparison (and it is valid): Aries vs. Hardy. Aries was popular, but ended up drawing boos against the established star, in whom there have been years more emotional investment. Â Multiply that several times, and you have that potential with Taker. It may not happen, but it's too much of a risk - Taker's steak is now THE biggest prize at 'Mania, more than any world title. It's monolithic, and I don't think Ryback's over enough yet to challenge for it. With Taker's injuries, he may never end up over enough in time to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted October 18, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 I don't get what's so puzzling. The build for Batista's face turn was a great job. In this case they put someone who is over in a position to draw money against the champion. If all goes well at the PPV, then its a "great job". But there's an 8 page thread filled with posts about how not to fuck this up. You can't judge how well this is until after the Hell in the Cell. I can say they've done a great job, so far, though (which is what I was on about). I can reserve my right to say it was shit after the PPV, like everybody else. We're arguing over superlatives now though. Â I agree it's a shame the undefeated angle for the Steak isn't happening though. It's something worth seeing, as somebody loses their big record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ShortOrderCook Posted October 18, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 In this case they put someone who is over in a position to draw money against the champion. Â He wasnt particularly over though, even with yourself. You only did a U-turn on him following the first Punk confrontation and match against Tensai. He was getting there, putting against Punk just rapidly jumped it up a few notches, it wasnt sonething the audience was passionately demanding and forced upon WWE that way, they created the situation ahead of any schedule there may have been. A large part of these reactions has to be in due part to Punk and Heymans heel stuff and people well up for Ryback smashing him as a result. They wouldnt have put Ryback in this situation if Cena wasn't fucked which it almost sounds like you're suggesting they would have. He was the best fit considering the circumstances and that he isn't littered with losses and thus makes a great foe for heel Punk and his lengthy reign without Cena to go to bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted October 18, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 I thought Ryback was a complete plum because he's been on TV since April and did absolutely frig all of note, except have a bloodshot eye every two weeks. If they'd have done a great job with him, he wouldn't have been doing nothing for months. He's exactly the same level of talent as he was last year. He's been in developmental since 2006. This is probably as good as he's going to get. I wrote about this weeks ago. They should have done something with him around May or June. A man of his size and presence shouldn't have been wrestling nobodies for months on end. I have no idea why he suddenly got over with the fans so strong. He got over with me when he murdered Tensai in Goldberg fashion, but his reactions were big before that. Â Yeah, they wouldn't have gave him this title shot if Cena wasn't injured. And they shouldn't have. As I said, they've booked themselves into a corner. Ryback should win (because he shouldn't be losing or looking like a spanner while he's never been hotter), but at the same time he should never have been in the match to start with. They had him doing the same thing for months and then he got over and now they have rushed him into a situation where people are saying "I wonder if they'll fuck this up?" Â And Carbomb is just wrong on the Undertaker vs Ryback thing. Can't be arsed to write more than the obvious, because I wouldnt know where to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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