Moderators PowerButchi Posted December 6, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 6, 2012 Like everything it's a matter of perception and all that stuff. The only way Hogan vs Andre was objectively the best match at mania three is from a purely business standpoint. After that it's all a matter of opinion. Â I'd disagree with that. It inspired a reaction, the biggest reactions, and had the standout iconic moments required in order to make it a truly great match. Wrestling is about inspiring reactions and emotions and making them come back next time for more of the same, and that match delivered that way in spades. Â It certainly did at the time and I agree that its all about inspiring emotions and that. But to say on this cold day in 2012 that it's objectively the best match on the card? Sure it helped business for several years but I'm guessing that as many people would want to watch Steamboat/Savage as the ME if they revisited this PPV. Â I still pop big for the Bodyslam, and the match still tells a simple but good story and still ticks all the boxes. I don't see how it should be any different in 2012 to how it was in 1987. Wrestling is still basically the same when it comes down to brass tacks. It's still all about working the people to take them where you want them to go. That match still does that brilliantly. Â It's fair enough if you view it objectively but remember that a lot of people watch it subjectively and don't really care who makes what money (probably mainly, like I mentioned before, because they aren't making any money off it anyway). We're fans. Yes. And the fans paid to see Hogan and Andre more times over the next two years than Steamboat and Savage. In fact Savage was used in the Hogan and Andre feud to be elevated. So again, the fans wanted to see more of Hogan and Andre following WrestleMania III. Â If business is up due to a match being popular, that means fans liked the thing. Â It's a flawed narrow-minded concept. Savage was also elevated off the back of that, seeing the value he had. Building the next two WrestleManias around him and Hogan following his WrestleMania III performance could be used as evidence to qualify it as the best if you want. His performance demanded he become main event. Â Yeah, but Savage was already going around the horn against Hogan on top in 1985. He was always going to settle in a top spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWM Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I DIDN'T SAY THAT FANS DIDN'T LIKE THE MATCH I SAID THAT SOME FANS, LIKE MYSELF, PREFER STEAMBOAT-SAVAGE! Â What am I supposed to do? Go to wrestling labour camp and be forced to watch Hogan-Andre whilst being slapped by Al Snow until I understand the error of my ways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted December 6, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 6, 2012 If you would, ta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted December 6, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 6, 2012 What am I supposed to do? Go to wrestling labour camp and be forced to watch Hogan-Andre whilst being slapped by Al Snow until I understand the error of my ways? Â Maybe you can carry him to his only decent match in 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shovanist Pig Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) I DIDN'T SAY THAT FANS DIDN'T LIKE THE MATCH I SAID THAT SOME FANS, LIKE MYSELF, PREFER STEAMBOAT-SAVAGE! Â What am I supposed to do? Go to wrestling labour camp and be forced to watch Hogan-Andre whilst being slapped by Al Snow until I understand the error of my ways? Â If YOUR favourite match was Steamboat-Savage then that's fine. But the BEST match was Hulk-Andre because most people paid to see that. Edited December 6, 2012 by Shovanist Pig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) So if Al Snow believes the best match at Wrestlemania III was Andre/Hogan then he is also admitting that Edge was a far better wrestler than him. Which also means that his opinion holds rank over Al Snow. Which means we can use the word moveset Edited December 6, 2012 by maxwell_murder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWM Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Yes, Edge 1 - Al Snow 0. Which brings me to Steamboat's superior moveset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted December 6, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 6, 2012 And what was Steamboat's repetoire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ShortOrderCook Posted December 6, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 6, 2012 His performance demanded he become main event. That is flawed logic. Hogan liked him. That's the reason he became a main eventer. And his performances in the ring meant nothing to what made a main eventer in 1987. He'd have turned face and teamed with Hogan whether he stunk up the building with George Steele again. Plans weren't written on the day like now. Savage was always primed for that spot long before the Steamboat match. Â Of course Savages performances and ability meant something in 1987. Just like Hogans would have meant something before he was pushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted December 6, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Hogan's is a bit different though, if you ask me. He'd already been to the WWF on top in the late 70s feuding with Andre the Giant, and was arguably the US hottest babyface before he went to the WWF in 1983. Hogan was pushed everywhere, originally on pretty much the only basis that he was a massive guy with a great body at first. And went about calling Tony Atlas a Brown Clown. Edited December 6, 2012 by PowerButchi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted December 6, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Of course Savages performances and ability meant something in 1987. Just like Hogans would have meant something before he was pushed. Hogan's really didn't. Hogan was a less talented version of Brock Lesnar for his era. Hogan was literally pushed the day he debuted in wrestling, because of his size and charisma. Hogan was shockingly bad in the late 70s and early 80s, but everyone in the business saw him as wrestlings next huge star. Savage was obviously a better worker, but it was how he looked and how he spoke why Savage was pushed so hard. If Savage wrestled like Honky Tonk Man, he'd have been still given the spot he was given. Savage looked great, talked great and he had Elizabeth. Elizabeth was a huge reason Savage was a big star in the 80s. Edited December 6, 2012 by IANdrewDiceClay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ShortOrderCook Posted December 6, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 6, 2012 I DIDN'T SAY THAT FANS DIDN'T LIKE THE MATCH I SAID THAT SOME FANS, LIKE MYSELF, PREFER STEAMBOAT-SAVAGE! Â What am I supposed to do? Go to wrestling labour camp and be forced to watch Hogan-Andre whilst being slapped by Al Snow until I understand the error of my ways? Â If YOUR favourite match was Steamboat-Savage then that's fine. But the BEST match was Hulk-Andre because most people paid to see that. Â This is what I don't agree with. I'm not for one second saying I think Savage - Steamboat is better than Hogan -Andre, I'm not even that big a fan of it and Hogan -Andre is obviously more significant. But this statement just implies its the best hyped match and that applying that logic to any and every card/match is a flawed concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWM Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 To be fair Ian does know everything there is to know about wrestling hence his successful career in the business. I've found it's pretty futile to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ShortOrderCook Posted December 6, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 6, 2012 Hogan and Savage were still pushed based on abilities they had as well. Whether that's charisma or whatever. It that meant nothing they never would have caught on. Andre too, obvious why he was pushed but he still knew how to work and had that ability. If not, they'd have all ended up like that guy who looked amazing, was an amazing athlete, had a barnburner with Bret Hart and got touted as the next big thing before being exposed and fading into obscurity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted December 6, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 6, 2012 To be fair Ian does know everything there is to know about wrestling hence his successful career in the business. I've found it's pretty futile to disagree. Well Al Snow was on TV for 15 years making a good living and his opinion doesn't count. Hogan and Andre drew huge money and they didn't have the best match on a show they sold. What is the criteria of actually having the correct opinion in your dim world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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