Random thoughts thread v2 *NO NEWS ITEMS*

[King Pitcos]

I think it's the case of the old saying that you only make someone a Superstar by having them beat other Superstars.

 

Bret had it hard in 1992 and 1993 because of guys like Hogan, Sid, Savage and Flair leaving. If he'd had been put over by some of those guys on major PPV events maybe he'd have been seen as a bigger deal? Not to knock their actual talent, but beating guys like Owen Hart, Bam Bam, Razor and IC Champ-level Shawn Michaels is hardly a list of megastar victories. Had he beaten Flair and Savage in (surely epic) PPV matches it would have done wonders for his stock.

 

Austin was put over huge by Hart with a feud that did both the world of good, then cleanly beat Michaels at Mania, beat the Taker at Summerslam, beat the Rock at Mania. Decisive victories on the biggest stages against genuine top level mainstays. Rock had similar treatment, beating all the Attitude Era's top stars like Austin,Taker, HHH, Foley etc...

The comparison doesn't work in terms of "beat other superstars" -- Austin never beat Bret in a big match, nor anyone else until he was already driving the train. He disproves the "need to beat stars" theory as much as he proves it. What were Austin's huge victories before the '98 Rumble? Beating Michaels at WrestleMania launched the Austin era officially, but Stone Cold was already the biggest thing in the company when his biggest wins were over Jake Roberts, Owen Hart and a pseudo-win at the '97 Rumble. The big thing that got Austin over was a loss to Bret Hart at WrestleMania, not a win.

 

Likewise The Rock, even moreso because he didn't even have a beat-Michaels-at-WrestleMania type win. He didn't beat Austin until 2003, when both of their careers were winding down. The Rock spent 1998 losing to Ken Shamrock and Triple H before trading wins with Mankind, who was on the same level as him (and also was getting to the top on the strength of personality and performances rather than win-loss records). Rock then spent 1999 losing to Austin, Undertaker and Triple H but becoming the biggest star in wrestling with it.

[bAzTNM#1]

1996 was the year WWF magazine stopped coming into our local shop.

Video tapes stopped going in the shops quickly too. Quality of the packaging went down as well. Check out the back of some of those videos released between 1995 to 1996. Some unbelievably poor quality there. Spelling mistakes all over the shop.

[Guest]

I really hate the matches going into the hall of fame idea.

[garynysmon]

I think it's the case of the old saying that you only make someone a Superstar by having them beat other Superstars.

Bret had it hard in 1992 and 1993 because of guys like Hogan, Sid, Savage and Flair leaving. If he'd had been put over by some of those guys on major PPV events maybe he'd have been seen as a bigger deal? Not to knock their actual talent, but beating guys like Owen Hart, Bam Bam, Razor and IC Champ-level Shawn Michaels is hardly a list of megastar victories. Had he beaten Flair and Savage in (surely epic) PPV matches it would have done wonders for his stock.

 

Exactly. Bret's whole 'Respect' push at the time was that he was a fighting champion, so was defending the title every week seemingly. But what that meant by late 1992 was he was defending the strap against Papa Shango (who's push had long gone), Virgil and Skinner (who never had one).

I still think they dropped a bollock by not going with Savage v Bret at either the Royal Rumble or Wrestlemania. I'm sure Savage would have been happy to do the job given the way he was being written out of storylines.

[AshC]

Going back to the discussion of wrestling's fallen popularity in the mid-90s, I believe that 'War Zone' PlayStation game had a massive role in making wrestling cool again over here. People got into that game off the back of its reviews and became familiar with the characters as a result. Looking at the release date, its summer 1998, which seems late, but then there weren't even any figures in the shops over here that summer. The closest was this mini ring showing up in the Argos catalogues, with a handful of smaller figures.

 

Edited January 15, 2014 by AshC

[tiger_rick]

The comparison doesn't work in terms of "beat other superstars" -- Austin never beat Bret in a big match, nor anyone else until he was already driving the train. He disproves the "need to beat stars" theory as much as he proves it. What were Austin's huge victories before the '98 Rumble? Beating Michaels at WrestleMania launched the Austin era officially, but Stone Cold was already the biggest thing in the company when his biggest wins were over Jake Roberts, Owen Hart and a pseudo-win at the '97 Rumble. The big thing that got Austin over was a loss to Bret Hart at WrestleMania, not a win.

 

That's a cracking point. I reckon you could say the same for Hulk Hogan?

 

I do feel that the matches with Bret legitimised Austin somewhat. He went toe to toe with the guy we'd been told was the best wrestler in the WWF for the past 4 years and looked great doing it. He was pretty over before that though.

 

I do think if you want to make genuine top line mega stars they perhaps need an equally brilliant rival, like Austin had with McMahon, Hogan with Piper, Rock with Austin, etc. To me that, bucketloads of charisma and a committed and well thought out marketing drive is the key to making a star.

[thegamehhh]

Going back to the discussion of wrestling's fallen popularity in the mid-90s, I believe that 'War Zone' PlayStation game had a massive role in making wrestling cool again over here. People got into that game off the back of its reviews and became familiar with the characters as a result. Looking at the release date, its summer 1998, which seems late, but then there weren't even any figures in the shops over here that summer. The closest was this mini ring showing up in the Argos catalogues, with a handful of smaller figures.

 

 

You could get Undertaker-HBK Jakks series 1 in a special deal at Index for

[garynysmon]

Going back to the discussion of wrestling's fallen popularity in the mid-90s, I believe that 'War Zone' PlayStation game had a massive role in making wrestling cool again over here. People got into that game off the back of its reviews and became familiar with the characters as a result. Looking at the release date, its summer 1998, which seems late, but then there weren't even any figures in the shops over here that summer.

 

Summer 98? That's mad! They still had Bret Hart in the game and moves were being made to ship him out around a year before it was released. I'd argue the boom in this country started before then though. Wrestling started to become a talking point again by late 97.

[King Pitcos]

I was going to mention the Undertaker-Michaels set from Index. I remember being blown away when I saw that in the catalogue, and I was straight up there for it. An Undertaker figure where his hat wasn't stuck to his head! And their arms and legs both moved.

 

I used to get those mini-rings every time they brought a new catalogue out as well. They were great. It bugged me how the attitude era ones were slightly smaller though, so Kane and The Rock were cruiserweights compared to Undertaker, Bret, Michaels etc.

 

Warzone is an odd game, in the sense that Bret Hart and Kane are both in it. Kane's first match was the same night as Bret's last.

Edited January 15, 2014 by King Pitcos

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I'll always say the boom started at Survivor Series 98. It seemed like over night our entire school was into it. Nobody in our school was talking about wrestling in 97. A few did for WrestleMania 14, but Survivor Series is where it all kicked off.

Edited January 15, 2014 by IANdrewDiceClay

[King Pitcos]

Yeah, that Survivor Series was the first PPV I watched in full since we'd lost Sky Sports after the '96-97 football season. I got about halfway through a tape of WrestleMania 14 before getting bored, but Deadly Game had me hooked. I was doing PE in a The Rock t-shirt after Christmas, and ordering DX baseball caps that I don't remember ever wearing. No more Livewire for me, I was at my sister's every Friday night for the Raw/Nitro session until I started going out about a year later.

Edited January 15, 2014 by King Pitcos

[Chris B]

I reckon you're looking at Wrestlemania XIV and just afterwards. The Mike Tyson thing was huge and I remember a full double page spread in the Mirror (well, in the Irish edition, anyway, but I'm guessing it was in the UK one as well) covering it.

 

Around that time, the videogames were kicking off (and I agree - that's a huge factor. A big game can create interest in the show for sure), there was the first run of 18 rated videos around, and altogether, it made the WWF look more interesting than it had been for ages.

 

It really was a perfect storm. You had the Raw magazine and the videos making it look violent, cool and edgy with plenty of blood. You had the first decent videogame that actually took off (although nWo vs The World had done pretty well too, if memory serves), you had Sable and Sunny wearing as little as possible, you had the website actually being pretty good at a time when not many sites had much, and you had Mike Tyson and mainstream coverage.

 

Throw in the most interesting the Undertaker had been up until that point, barbed wire and Hell in a Cell being used for the first time and Steve Austin taking off - there was a lot to find interesting if you hadn't watched for a while.

[garynysmon]

I was really unlucky as we lost our Sky dish to a thunderstorm in the summer of 1998 and my Dad didn't get round to getting our connection back until 1999. So late 97 and early 98 is an era I look back upon fondly, but am still relatively in the dark about what happened during the rest of the year.

[tiger_rick]

I reckon you're looking at Wrestlemania XIV and just afterwards. The Mike Tyson thing was huge and I remember a full double page spread in the Mirror (well, in the Irish edition, anyway, but I'm guessing it was in the UK one as well) covering it.

 

I was going to say that but the more I think about it, I think Ian is right. It got bigger after WM14. There was a bit more coverage and more stuff in shops but I think it was late 1998 when it really exploded. That's when wrestling T-shirts were everywhere, the games were huge, people who used to watch seemed to be watching again, wrestlers were on TV shows, etc. That was proper boom time.

[dopper]

WWF being in the newspapers was so rare back then I bought all of the red-tops on that Tuesday when they all had coverage of Tyson chinning HBK at WM14.

 

The most common headline was "FROM BADDEST TO SADDEST", such was Tyson's fall from grace, with references to the WWF circus with their spandex-clad heroes and villains.

 

The confrontation between Tyson & Austin on Raw two months earlier made the back page of a few UK newspapers too, which first brought the WWF to the attention of many of my mates who had grown out of it years earlier.

 

It's making me feel old when you lot are talking about discussing stuff from 1998 at school.

Edited January 15, 2014 by dopper