Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 7, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 7, 2018 That sounds like a recipe for a bad night for Branch. Maybe a bit of reverse psychology and he'll talk up wanting a ground battle and then come to knock Jacare's head off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Part two of the Lee Murray interview. Murray gives his opinions on McGregor and Bisping. He doesn't pull any punches. - https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/7/9/17492142/the-real-notorious-part-2-krusty-and-the-count-lee-murray-conor-mcgregor-michael-bisping-ufc-mma While I don't agree with everything that Murray says, I do understand his bitterness to a degree. The UFC seemingly had big plans for Murray, just before MMA's popularity was about to explode. The London street fight that Murray had with Ortiz in 2002 gave him a degree of infamy on the underground. I have never seen footage of the fight, although it is meant to exist somewhere. Murray made a big splash in his UFC debut in early 2004. He dispatched of Jorge Rivera fairly quickly and exchanged words with Ortiz. Murray was meant to return to the UFC in the summer of 2004, but he had visa and legal issues, which I presume he never resolved as a free man. While he was trying to get these issues sorted, the UFC allowed him to fight Anderson Silva in Cage Rage in September of that year. He lost by unanimious decision, in what was to be his final MMA bout. Murray then became front-page news in 2005. I remember the stabbing incident, where he almost lost his life, being plastered all over the tabloids. Then came the depot robbery that eventually led to his imprisonment. It's important to take a snapshot of Murray's career in 2004. Had he kept himself on the straight and narrow after his UFC debut, then he would have been the top candidate to lead the UFC's expansion into the United Kingdom. At worst, he would have shared top billing with Bisping. He had everything that Bisping had. He looked, acted, and sounded the part. He was also a very good fighter from what we saw of him. Murray is certainly one of the biggest "what ifs" in MMA history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2018 No-one's as ever good as this guy's talked himself up to be. I'm sure he's fucking hard and a great fighter, but you just have to think he's talking up a game to try and get signed with some company. His bitterness is like his shit - it's all of his own making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Normally I would agree with your first two sentences Carbomb. But: A) There is no guarantee that Murray will see the light of day until 2035 (where he would be 57 years old) B) Murray probably believes most of what he says. He is not your regular trash-talking MMA fighter. He is a different breed. His reputation around certain areas of London is meant to be legendary to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 There are plenty of so-called "hard as fuck" guys in the UK today, but that doesn't mean that if you put them in a cage with another trained fighter they're gonna be taking fools out. Looking at his record, he hadn't beaten anyone of note really. Up until he fought Jorge Rivera he'd fought no one of note bar Joe Doerksen, and he lost that fight via submission a minute into the first round. A case of "what could have been" for sure, but I didn't see anything to suggest he would have been a major player in MMA really. More a case of being known for his silly shenanigans outside the cage than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 10, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 10, 2018 Murray held his own against Anderson Silva, that alone proves he had some legit potential. There is a difference between being street tough and being a pro fighter though. Murray is definitely a guy you wouldnt have wanted to cross in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 It depends on whether you consider Bisping circa 2006/2007 to have been a major player in MMA. That was the role that Murray was set for, or at least would have shared. Not the pinnacle of MMA, but a very important and influential role. He did have some decent wins on his record for the standards of the time - Rivera, Pele Reid, Rahnavardi. And the loss to Doerksen happened very early on in his career. That's not to say that he would have ended up as World Champion or anything, but he was certainly a legitimate prospect and someone who would have probably been a name for a while during MMA's explosion in the mid/late 2000s. Of course, the man he was outside the cage only has passing relevance to his MMA skills. It was said by someone years ago that Dillian Whyte would probably beat Anthony Joshua in a street fight, but wouldn't beat him in the boxing ring. But given what we know about Murray's character outside of the cage, it's probable that he believes most of what he says about his ability inside the cage. He isn't just playing around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Thing is, if he hadn't gotten done for what he did, it's very likely he'd have fucked up at some point and been put away. As is, we can only go on the information we have, and from what I've seen of him I don't think he'd have been remembered as a major player if he'd stuck around. Don't think he'd have had the longevity of a Bisping either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I agree that he would have found another way to fuck it up. He had arguably already fucked up his career to an extent in 2004. As stated, despite the UFC having him under contract, he was unable to compete for the organisation due to visa issues. I still think he could have been a fairly big name for a period. At the very least, he could have had a memorable stint on one of the earlier seasons of TUF. Another thing to consider is that he went the distance with Anderson Silva in a fight that was mostly contested on the feet. Less than 2 years later, Anderson arrived in the UFC and cleaned out the entire division with 6 successive stoppage victories. Anderson also stopped everyone else he fought in Cage Rage quite easily. When you consider that, Murray's performance against Anderson was not that bad (although he wasn't as competitive as the Cage Rage commentary team made out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said: I agree that he would have found another way to fuck it up. He had arguably already fucked up his career to an extent in 2004. As stated, despite the UFC having him under contract, he was unable to compete for the organisation due to visa issues. I still think he could have been a fairly big name for a period. At the very least, he could have had a memorable stint on one of the earlier seasons of TUF. Another thing to consider is that he went the distance with Anderson Silva in a fight that was mostly contested on the feet. Less than 2 years later, Anderson arrived in the UFC and cleaned out the entire division with 6 successive stoppage victories. Anderson also stopped everyone else he fought in Cage Rage quite easily. When you consider that, Murray's performance against Anderson was not that bad (although he wasn't as competitive as the Cage Rage commentary team made out). I get what you're saying, but Jeremy Horn went the distance with Anderson as well three months before that, and Ryo Chonan subbed him a few months after his win over Murray. Anderson was good then, but he wasn't at his peak in my opinion. It was nearly 2 years between his fight with Murray and his spectacular stoppage of Rich Franklin. Maybe Murray could have been that good, but if you take away the legend of the London streets tough guy and look at his record alone, he's nothing to write home about in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Don't forget that the submission loss was a complete Hail Mary on Chonan's part. It wasn't like Chonan could live with Anderson on the feet. Also, Horn's durability was legendary. His first stoppage loss via strikes came in his 96th MMA fight. Even then, it took a prime version of Chuck Liddell a good 4 rounds to get rid of him. Anderson did tighten up his game from 2004 onward. But the version that fought Murray was still a killer on the feet. I think we can agree that Murray was unproven as a world-class fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 10, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 10, 2018 Jeremy Horn was class back in the day. Really underappreciated old school fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 25 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said: Don't forget that the submission loss was a complete Hail Mary on Chonan's part. It wasn't like Chonan could live with Anderson on the feet. Also, Horn's durability was legendary. His first stoppage loss via strikes came in his 96th MMA fight. Even then, it took a prime version of Chuck Liddell a good 4 rounds to get rid of him. Anderson did tighten up his game from 2004 onward. But the version that fought Murray was still a killer on the feet. I think we can agree that Murray was unproven as a world-class fighter. My main point is that if Murray had, say, gotten an injury that cost him his career, would people be talking about him as an uncrowned great? I doubt it. It's the outside of the cage mystique shit that has people talking so much, and if we're honest, none of that matters in the cage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, David said: My main point is that if Murray had, say, gotten an injury that cost him his career, would people be talking about him as an uncrowned great? I doubt it. It's the outside of the cage mystique shit that has people talking so much, and if we're honest, none of that matters in the cage. Even now, I don't think anyone is saying that Murray is an uncrowned great. More that he could have been an influential figure in the UFC's UK expansion and a handy fighter. In terms of fighting ability, I think he was a bit better than say Dan Hardy. But I don't think he would have become World Champion or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cousin Jim Bob Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 hour ago, jimufctna24 said: Even now, I don't think anyone is saying that Murray is an uncrowned great. More that he could have been an influential figure in the UFC's UK expansion and a handy fighter. In terms of fighting ability, I think he was a bit better than say Dan Hardy. But I don't think he would have become World Champion or anything. Dan Hardy is who I always think about when Lee Murray is mentioned. As I remember most MMA opinions at the time were, he was too small and inexperienced for Tito. It was probably going to end up like Hardy vs GSP if he fought him. Put on his back vs a bigger and more talented grappler and smacked around. In their streetfight people say he got the better of Ortiz and thats added to his legend. I never really fancied his chances in the cage against Tito at LH but at middle he would have been a handful on his feet against most of their guys at that weight at the time. Shame he was such a wrong un. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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