Paid Members Egg Shen Posted June 22, 2015 Author Paid Members Posted June 22, 2015 I've not watched a lot of Lashley (MMA or wrestling), but he was a right bore on Saturday. Is Lashley a big enough star to even bother protecting? yeh, that's kind of my point. I think any stage of protecting Lashley is over and done with, he's had 15 fights, been a pro for 7 fucking years. It's time to bung him in there, he's beaten some so-so opposition but given the state of Bellator's heavyweight division there's not better fighter to put in there with Minakov than Lashley. They'll probably want to put the James Thompson re-match back together though. As for the shape of Kimbo, he was noticably chunkier, but as Dave said when you have bad knees and you're getting up there in age, it's kind of understandable...i don't for one second think he busted his ass training for Saturday though, he probably hit a few mitts and did half hour or jiu jitsu training. Quote
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted June 22, 2015 Paid Members Posted June 22, 2015 i don't for one second think he busted his ass training for Saturday though, he probably hit a few mitts and did half hour or jiu jitsu training. And it was still enough to beat the 'World's Most Dangerous Man'. Shamrock needs to stop, like, ten years ago at least. I actually felt sorry for him in his post-fight interview. Looking back, if he'd retired after the first Tito loss he'd be still looked at as a proper legend now. Or even retiring after the Franklin fight in 2005. That would've been quite fitting actually, Shamrock retiring at the TUF 1 finale and kind of passing the torch to the younger guys. The fact I'm saying that about the TUF 1 finale and here we are - ten years and 20-something TUFs later - and he's still fighting. It's sad. I remember his post-fight interview after losing to Franklin being a nice moment with him basically acknowledging that he was bettered by a younger new-breed fighter. Now Franklin's done and Shamrock's still at it. That would've been the time to go out in hindsight. Since then it's been one embarrassment after another. This Kimbo loss wasn't so much. As Shamrock fights go, this was actually controversy free. But it's just another loss chipping away at his legacy. Quote
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted June 22, 2015 Author Paid Members Posted June 22, 2015 Yeh its never good, but at least Ken didnt come out and claim to be better than ever, he pretty much said he's doing it for fun these days. Quote
Ghostface1982 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Wow - what a fucking work! The takedowns, firstly - Shamrock telegraphed 2 takedowns from a mile away and Kimbo just went with them. Secondly, the choke was perfect - but he couldn't finish it. Perfectly locked in. Thirdly, then Kimbo escapes the choke, and stands up with a burst of energy that he didn't have in the first 3 minutes and Shamrock goes down with the first tap he gets on the face. Fuck that. I know your knowledge as a black belt in BJJ gives you a bit more authority on the matter than me, but from what I saw it was simply a guy who used to be quick enough to take people down and still knowing the technique simply being quick enough to take down a 41 year old guy who it has been documented has arthritis in his knees. As for the choke, you could see Shamrock changing arm position at least three times (plus Slice was continually grabbling at his hands), which suggests he never had it sunk in properly, although it's hard to tell due to Kimbo's beard. As for the "tap to Shamrocks face", did you catch the slow motion replay of the shot that put him down? Did you see the gash it left over his eye? I'm not sure what kind of punches you've taken in your MMA career, but if you classify that as a "tap" then you've obviously been in some fucking wars. Shamrock is in his 50's, he's suffered a lot of injury and he was fighting a guy much bigger than him on the night. He tried to do what he could, he came close with a choke, didn't get it sunk in properly and Slice escaped. It's really that simple. There was no "sudden burst of energy", he managed to turn out of the choke (which isn't too difficult if you have half a clue what you're actually doing, someone like you should know that), stand up and clip Ken with a hard shot. Shamrock's confidence was gone as soon as he realised he couldn't lock in that choke. He was done by that point. The fight was actually more entertaining than I thought it would be. I feared Shamrock getting flattened and put down with punches after 10 or 20 seconds, so the fact that he actually made a fight of it was a pleasant surprise. Indeed, the choke looked more on his forearm rather than fully sunk in. Not the first time Shamrock has took a dive though. Quote
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted June 22, 2015 Author Paid Members Posted June 22, 2015 Jimmy Smith addressing the 'fake fight' allegations: The one question I want to ask people who doubt the veracity of the fight is: What kind of fight did you expect? Ken has built his reputation on his submission skills, but he has always been a guy who generally forced a submission rather than relied on pure technique. If you recall his fight with Don Frye, he wrenched on leg locks several times and wasn't able to get the proper angle to finish the fight. It was a technical issue that dogged much of his career. He was squeezing the hell out of Kimbo's neck as hard as he could but (as some on this thread pointed out) he failed to engage his hips at all and that proved to be the difference. I thought he burned his arms out trying to muscle the choke out of a much bigger fighter. It was fairly clear to me that once Kimbo got out it was only a matter of time. Ken had cardio issues against Fujita and Tito and that was EONS ago in MMA years. He gave everything he had to one choke and it didn't pan out, as soon as he took a solid one to the chin that was it. Even the most ardent Ken supporter would have conceded that it wouldn't take many from Kimbo to end the fight and it didn't. What we saw at Bellator 138 was, in my opinion, the best effort of a fighter who didn't have that much left to give. As soon as Ken took a solid shot he turned to Big John and shook his head, he simply wanted no more. Its unfortunate, but a performance like that doesn't require a fix in MMA, it requires a fighter who sees no merit in going any further and taking more of a beating. I can only speak from the promotional/broadcast side of the equation of course, if Ken and/or Kimbo had some personal (and highly illegal) agreement to fix the fight they certainly didn't let Bellator in on it. For those who feel that Bellator would fix the fight I offer the following: To get caught fixing a fight is tantamount to promotional suicide. ANYONE (the UFC, Dana, Coker, the Fertitta's, etc) who is caught influencing the outcome of a fight will never legally be allowed to promote a fight again (outside of perhaps a bare-knuckle fight on an indian reservation, but even that would be unlikely). The state would pull your promoter's license so fast it would make you nauseous. With that in mind you have to weigh the "risk vs reward" equation for fixing a fight, especially a televised show of the magnitude of Bellator 138. MMA, unlike boxing, doesn't often work on the "undefeated mega-fight" system where there is a TON of money riding on 2 fighters overcoming certain fights to make the "big one" happen. Most fighters in MMA have records that would make them journeymen in boxing, even some of the biggest names in the sport. MMA doesn't have any title sanctioning bodies like boxing, there are no rival promoters on the opposing sides of 2 fighters, and the national promotions have virtually unlimited discretion in deciding who fights who, when, and for what title. There is no need for a fix to make a certain fight happen, the only thing necessary is the promotion themselves putting the fight together. That is my general argument against most cries of "fix!!" in the MMA world (like I stated before: from a PROMOTIONAL point of view). Why would Bellator, the UFC, or anyone else take the ASTRONOMICAL risk of fixing a fight when they can make whatever fight they want with a fan base that is fairly forgiving of a loss?[/i] ...and Rogan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5zTuecQiVY Quote
David Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Jimmy Smith is bang on the money. He's like a less annoying, more knowledgable Joe Rogan. Quote
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted June 22, 2015 Author Paid Members Posted June 22, 2015 Smith is quality. His boxing commentary work on Spike is bang on too, i expect him to end up with HBO or something down the line. Did you ever see Fight Quest? When Smith and another guy travelled the world trying out different fight disciplines, well worth a look if you're interested in that kind of thing. Quote
jimufctna24 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Ken vs Kimbo pulled an average of 1.6 million, with a peak of 2.1 million for the actual fight. For the current climate, those are strong numbers. I like Jimmy Smith as well, a refreshing change from the UFC's broadcast line-up. Quote
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted June 23, 2015 Author Paid Members Posted June 23, 2015 Yep, big numbers. Expect these kinds of fights to keep coming Quote
Herne's Son Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 First Bellator show I ever watched, was pretty good, solid undercard with lots of finishes. That Chandler guy was really good, also what a crazy title fight with the one guy getting knocked pretty much out at the end of the round then bouncing back to win. Sorry can't remember the guys names. Bobby Lashley had his usual fight, surprised UFC never took a punt on him, he's not as big a star as Brock or Punk but still he has some name value and the UFC heavy weight division is always a little thin. The main event was quite shocking really, I mean it looked so amatuer and I won't lie the whole reason I watched this show was for the main event but still this kind of fight should not be headlining in 2015. Septembers show has my interest, who's the british champ that Tito is fighting? Is he any good? Quote
WyattSheepMask Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Just watched the fight on youtube. Shamrock should have packed it in at least 10 years ago. Surely it's as much the fault of governing bodies awarding him a fighter's licence as anything else. As was posted , you just feel a bit sorry for him living on his way past glories Quote
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted June 23, 2015 Author Paid Members Posted June 23, 2015 fighter medicals must be quite easy to pass. Ken may be busted up physically but he seems alright in the head, the fact that punch drunk guys like James Toney get sanctioned to compete is even more startling. Quote
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted June 25, 2015 Author Paid Members Posted June 25, 2015 Bellator rolls on tomorrow night with this: Cheik Kongo vs. Alexander Volvov Dave Rickles vs. John Alessio Pat Curran vs. Emmanuel Sanchez Joe Schilling vs. Hisaki Sato fun little lineup. Winner of the main event likely gets the World Title fight at Heavweight, hopefully Kongo stands and makes it an exciting fight. It looks like Bellator have found Joe Schilling a wild opponent who's stand and throw down, Sato is 4-1 every fight ending in a KO early. Lamb to the slaugter job i thinks... It's worth tuning in for the Rickles fight alone though, last time he fought in Kansas (his hometown) the atmosphere was pretty special...add in he's great to watch. Should be good. There's a Bubba Jenkins/Joe Wilk slated for the undercard that im hoping they squeeze onto the main broadcast too. Quote
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted June 25, 2015 Paid Members Posted June 25, 2015 Is this on Spike UK? If so, when? Quote
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