Loki Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Conversely, possibly because I thought Hogan would be a hugely brittle and immobile wreck, I loved the Hogan - Rock match, and still think it's one of the best written matches I've seen. Pure drama. Â I know people say that Hogan fucked over Rock by turning himself heel, but I firmly believe they were expecting that reaction and planned for it. Everyone wanted to cheer Hogan, it was obvious by that point, and the Old Lion/Young Lion storyline was better than a heel/face dynamic. Â How you can be gutted for the Rock, I don't know. He beat Hogan 1-2-3 in one of the loudest matches of all time. They both looked like megastars, and isn't that the point of any main event match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 26, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted July 26, 2013 (edited) I know people say that Hogan fucked over Rock by turning himself heel, but I firmly believe they were expecting that reaction and planned for it. Everyone wanted to cheer Hogan, it was obvious by that point, and the Old Lion/Young Lion storyline was better than a heel/face dynamic. Hogan beat the Rock clean on Raw the week before and he was the most over man at the fan fest the previous day. Everyone knew Hogan was the babyface going into that match. You only had to look into the crowd to see all the signs and t-shirts. There wasn't a chance Hogan was getting heel reactions on his return to a building he'd worked sold out a few times. Â Its one of the best specticals I've ever seen in wrestling. A surreal experience watching it. Everything was met with a reaction. Its how its supposed to be done. Edited July 26, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Maverick Posted July 26, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted July 26, 2013 The fact that Hogan has always been hugely over in Canada probably played a part too, buildings shook a few times for him there so I imagine that added to the spectacle on top of everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ShortOrderCook Posted July 26, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted July 26, 2013 How you can be gutted for the Rock, I don't know. He beat Hogan 1-2-3 in one of the loudest matches of all time. They both looked like megastars, and isn't that the point of any main event match? Â Mainly, because I was young. But I still was gutted for him. He looked truly gutted to me. Everyone and his dog may have been expecting that Hogan reaction, but I'm not sure Rock quite expected them to be SO pro-Hogan and anti-Rock. I think it's clear that takes him by surprise, it was the start of his backlash that really developed that year. It's only my opinion and take on it but i'm certain that match and that year readjusted his thinking on the balance of his wrestling and movie career. I think at the time he still somewhat saw himself as a man taking the company into the future the best he could. Rock was still a pretty young guy at this point of his life, it was a big learning and maturing experience I reckon. I've long thought two events in Rocks wrestling career have played a really significant part in moulding The Rock we know today, that match and the supposed aftermath with Foley from Royal Rumble '99. Â And anyway, on the Rock beating Hogan in that match? I really don't need to address that do I? That match is probably the best example ever of the result of the match not having to matter or have any real impact. Rock winning didn't have any real positive impact on his career and that's partly where my gutment stemmed. He probably thought going in it would be this big pivotal moment that landmarked his career, going over him, but it was almost all about Hogans return, not The Rock. It was all 'OHMYOGD YAY HOGAN IS BACK, FUCK OFF ROCK, BORED OF YOU NOW'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 26, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted July 26, 2013 (edited) If the Rock was that bothered about the boos, he would have quit wrestling when fans were holding up "Die Rocky Die" signs in 1997. He's probably the last wrestler I'd expect to be bothered by the boos. A few months later when he returned and buried Steve Austin for walking out I thought that summed up the Rock's attitude at the time. Here's a bloke who was never there burying Steve Austin. Someone who was always there where his fingers were numb or he could barely walk. Wrestling was just something he did while he was making films. Rock wasn't even there for most of the build up to the Hogan match. This massive match between two legends and they had to do an injury angle for him so he go film some movie. Edited July 26, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ShortOrderCook Posted July 26, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted July 26, 2013 Yeah, but it then went on to become almost exclusively him filming movies thereafter, rather than hanging around the best he could. Having 'DIE ROCKY DIE' chanted at him in his early days, when nobody ever liked him to begin with is totally different at that point of his career when he went on to transform that into the being one of the most well known, popular, coolest people on the planet. He must have believed he was on Hogans level in his heyday. It had to be an eye-opener and massive learning experience for him and it made him realise just how truly fickle wrestling fans are. That's part of what made his 2003 heel run such a joy to behold and so satisfying to see. He popped back, got everyone in the palm of his hand more than ever like the puppets they are than totally fucked off. And fair play to him for that. Â Rock is still human. He was clearly taken aback when in his big return they chanted for fucking Zack Ryder. He was well versed with how to deal with that shit by then. And he blatantly loves wrestling. He doesn't need to have come back over the last few years, if anything the risk of doing that could do him great harm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted July 27, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted July 27, 2013 That's part of what made his 2003 heel run such a joy to behold and so satisfying to see. He popped back, got everyone in the palm of his hand more than ever like the puppets they are than totally fucked off. And fair play to him for that. Â Hollywood Rock was absolutely fucking brilliant. That was by far the most rewarding little spell of his career for me, more rewarding than any of his babyface career and funnier than his initial heel run or Corporation run, and that's saying something. That entrance video blew my mind when I first saw it at No Way Out, I'm fairly sure my CAW on Here Comes The Pain had it, just for those amazing overhead cityscape views even though I recognized a lot of the footage as recycled from the filming of Raw On The Roof (1995) and those NYC traffic shots they used in the video packages for Survivors 96 (among other shows) - it still looked awesome. I also liked the slowed down cut of his entrance theme, and the melody seemed to be closer to the final one he had as a Nation member prior to his first face turn. It was my favourite theme of his up until his most recent one, which they've just gone mental with the guitar solos from the off, but that's fine if you're as big a deal as The Rock. The whole package of that particular Rock run was splendid and it was capped by his final match with Steve Austin, one of my favourite matches ever, with some lovely coincidental backstory from the "Austin can take his ball and go home" line from ten months previous. The only extra touch I think they missed out on, is that just as the People's Elbow had been the Corporate Elbow the last time he was a heel, The Scorpion King should have renamed it the Hollywood Elbow just to further grate on everyone's nerves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 27, 2013 Moderators Share Posted July 27, 2013 Can someone please explain to me what the fuck "Discretionary viewer participation is advised" means on Pre-Expansion WWF programming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Statto Posted July 27, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted July 27, 2013 The Scorpion King should have renamed it the Hollywood Elbow just to further grate on everyone's nerves. Â They never billed him as "now residing in Hollywood, CA" either, did they? Missed opportunity there, too IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 His stuff with Hurricane was gold in that period too. The Rock was actually saying amusing lines! Amazing. He was of a quality above wrestling at that point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Can someone please explain to me what the fuck "Discretionary viewer participation is advised" means on Pre-Expansion WWF programming? Â Surely that's just a bloated way of saying "Viewer discretion is advised", IE: warning parents of questionable content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 27, 2013 Moderators Share Posted July 27, 2013 That's what I thought, but with it being Pre-Expansion I wasn't sure they'd be that arsed, as nowhere else in the states was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallicks Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Bischoff awarding Triple H the belt in 2002. Wouldn't it have been more conducive to storyline building to have a little tournament or something? I think it was often mentioned on commentary afterwards that he hadn't "earned" the title, that it had been handed to him by Bischoff. So, ok, they both get heat from that. But it just seemed like an extended moan after that. I suppose I'm asking, how could they have booked it better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) I wouldn't wonder if part of it was that they were worried about a lack of main event depth. HHH was running against RVD, Booker, HBK and Kane during that stint, that shows the depth of the challengers they had. Having him come out on top of a tournament would kill at least two or three of those matches. And they already did HHH vs. HBK to death. Â I'm not saying that that's a good bookign strategy, just that I wouldn't be surprised if that was at least a small part of the reason. Edited July 28, 2013 by Vamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) I've always heard that initially, Van Dam was meant to beat him for it in the first defence. Edited July 28, 2013 by King Pitcos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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