Good matches involving bad wrestlers

[I Bent My Wookie]

Dolph Ziggler vs Goldberg.

Bill was never anything special and a lot of his work was made by the person in the ring being a human target practice and willing to roll with it.

And for how bland and cookie cutter Ziggler was as a performer in WWE, the man could sell ice to Eskimos.

Putting the two together had some of the best bumps and sells the industry could see and made a near Grandad age Goldberg still look like a killer.

 

[CTXRussomark]

Goldberg's an interesting one because while undoubtedly limited his hit rate when it came to holding up his end of big matches was actually pretty good.  Belters in WCW with DDP/Raven/Steiner and good/decent matches with Hogan/Nash/Sid.  His initial WWE run was obviously a huge disappointment but I seem to recall a fun Raw match with Mark Henry from that time plus the great Elimination Chamber performance, though not a lot else other than the terrible Triple H feud and wonky Lesnar match at Mania.  I didn’t catch much of his latter day run (including the Ziggler match mentioned above) but it seemed to be pretty well received other than the odd Saudi disaster.

[air_raid]

9 hours ago, I Bent My Wookie said:

Dolph Ziggler vs Goldberg

Good call, Bill did well making something watchable out of that shitehawk.

[westlondonmist]

Goldberg was again simply as good as he needed to be. I wasn't a fan but the fans went mental when they saw him in 1998, although I think by 2000 people did stop giving a shit because by that point he'd lost quite a few matches and he was over because he was a monster and not a great promo guy. I don't think he was truely over again until he started wrestling Lesnar again around 10 years ago. But all he needed to be was big American footballer throwing smaller guys around for fun. 

[air_raid]

It always makes me laugh about "bad wrestlers." Hogan and Warrior are both meant to have been bad. Hogan vs Savage - certified banger? "Savage carried him." Warrior vs Savage - another banger. "Savage carried him." Alright dickhead, who carried who in Hogan vs Warrior?

2 hours ago, westlondonmist said:

Goldberg was again simply as good as he needed to be.

Goldberg was great. Sheer variety of some of his squashes was excellent. That La Parka one especially. Him vs Raven was the second best 5 minute match of the 90s. Goldberg vs Hall, Goldberg vs Hogan, vs Page, vs Sting.. all were good to great matches that drew full investment from live crowds and from dorks like me watching at home. Even the much-maligned Nash match from Starrcade where he finally lost, people hate because they think it was the wrong result, but if you go back and watch it, it's pretty decent considering Kev was already showing wear and tear. He had a fairly decent 99 too while everything around him was turning to shit - his match with Bam Bam is a forgotten gem and he even had decent chemistry with Ric Flair who was nearing the end of his ability to have watchable wrestling matches (9 years before his first retirement, LOL). One of the biggest shames is that Goldberg's ascent didn't quite cross over with Macho Man still being mobile, that would have been great. In fact, based on Savage's allegedly miraculous ability to carry "bad wrestlers" to gold plated classics, it would have been the best match of all time.

But he's my heros nemesis so... fuck Bill Goldberg.

Edited June 4, 2025 by air_raid
GOOOOLDBERG, GOOOOOLDBERG

[LaGoosh]

I remember him having a match with Scott Steiner on PPV in 2000 which was pretty great. Proper big lads wrestling which we weren't really getting in WWF at the time.

Edited June 4, 2025 by LaGoosh

[westlondonmist]

1 minute ago, LaGoosh said:

I remember him having a match with Scott Steiner on PPV in 2000 which was pretty great. Proper big lads wrestling which we weren't really getting in WWF at the time.

One of those matches that you expect to be shit but is strangely rather entertaining and probably worth a watch for anybody, amazing how good it is especially considering it's WCW in 2000. 

[air_raid]

While I can't guarantee this was the first appearance of Goldy that made the 1 hour edit of Nitro for our version of TNT on a Friday night, I remember vividly this was the first time I saw him ;

Fucking hell, did this leave an impression on me. Totally cleaned out the TV champ and his biggest rival without pausing to care if the bell had rang or not, and then didn't let Mongo get the drop on him. One to watch in my book, without a clue how far he'd go given that I was pretty convinced 1998 was going to be all about Sting.

[Carbomb]

3 hours ago, air_raid said:

It always makes me laugh about "bad wrestlers." Hogan and Warrior are both meant to have been bad. Hogan vs Savage - certified banger? "Savage carried him." Warrior vs Savage - another banger. "Savage carried him." Alright dickhead, who carried who in Hogan vs Warrior?

Is that a reference to anything anyone's said here? Because Hogan clearly carried him. That's not an outlandish statement to make; Hogan carried a lot of people. I don't think anyone in this thread, or even on this forum in recent years, has really claimed Hogan was bad - even the guy posting Hogan vs. Warrior clearly just meant it was Warrior who was the bad one. Did someone claim that Savage carried Hogan? Because I haven't seen it.

I know there's a whole load of pushback against workrate perverts and all that, but Warrior was just not good as a wrestler, and his entire body of work from his debut until his last match in NWE pretty much demonstrates that he needed better guys to make him look his best. He was a great character, and he was at least carryable, but that's the most one can say for him.

[air_raid]

3 hours ago, Carbomb said:

Did someone claim that Savage carried Hogan? Because I haven't seen it.

I’ve heard/seen it tons in the last 30 years, yes.

[Carbomb]

15 minutes ago, air_raid said:

I’ve heard/seen it tons in the last 30 years, yes.

I meant on here, but your reply suggests you weren't referring to anyone in this thread, in which case I withdraw the objection regarding Hogan.

[BomberPat]

for the question of "who carried who in Hogan vs. Warrior", the dickhead answer is "Pat Patterson's agenting", really. It's a triumph of match structure more than anything.

In terms of good matches involving bad wrestlers, another Hogan one comes to mind - the Vince McMahon vs. Hulk Hogan street fight is one of the all-time great sports entertainment nonsense matches, and had no business being as good as it was.

[Chili]

Hogan is a good enough worker to know the timing, feel the audience and call the match. Pat Patterson agented (not a word) it like a film, and Hogan carried it out, Warrior was utter dogrel, but obviously competent enough and understanding of his character to listen to Hogan, and especially Savage and people like Rick Rude for the beats and throes of the flow and spots required to deliver what was needed from the match. Hogan's a racist cunt, but saying he was a bad worker, which you do come across (and yes when he wanted to dog it, he absolutely could) sounds like proper 'Glinner is a TERF so did he really ever write anything good' revisionist syndrome.

[LaGoosh]

22 hours ago, BomberPat said:

In terms of good matches involving bad wrestlers, another Hogan one comes to mind - the Vince McMahon vs. Hulk Hogan street fight is one of the all-time great sports entertainment nonsense matches, and had no business being as good as it was.

Vince McMahon usually had pretty good matches, to be fair. Though obviously they're not really comparable to normal matches as they were always full to the brim with all the gimmicks, bells and whistles available. Though going 40 minutes with Triple H at Armageddon 99 wasn't the wisest of choices - what a stinker that was.

[tiger_rick]

If we're letting Warrior pass as a "bad" wrestler, then the Savage match at Mania 7 pisses on the match the year before. Almost 35 years on and it's still the second best match in WrestleMania history.

Warrior's matches with Rude at Mania 5, SummerSlam 89 and SummerSlam 90 are all good or better. Savage/Warrior 2 isn't on the level of the first one but is very good. Warrior and Slaughter - who was a terrible athlete and wrestler by that point - is remarkably OK.