Members SuperBacon Posted September 8 Members Share Posted September 8 1 minute ago, Chili said: Helen and 1 minute ago, Chili said: Lovejoy. The glory days of Soccer AM. Anyway, I thought I'd watch that main event and see what all the fuss is about. It was fine. There were some bits that were a bit rank and unnecessary, but if they're doing it in a controlled environment and way, then sure why not? I certainly won't watch it again, and I dunno if they should be doing it as regularly as they seem to, but it's up to them innit? Having said that, if it's not for people and they think it IS too much, there shouldn't be shutting down of that with "Well dont watch it then" as there should be a balanced debate to he had. With what we know of CTE etc, it's perfectly OK to feel that even gimmicked head shots with a chair are not needed. Also, and I get it I'm not as involved as some of you "handsome cowboy" nerds, but I still don't get it with Page and think he's super overrated (I do with MJF too) I thought he was great here though, and like I say, I don't watch much so probably not the best judge of it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JLM Posted September 8 Paid Members Share Posted September 8 (edited) I thought the syringe was a good way to escalate the horror WITHOUT doing something more dangerous. It's grim as hell without being career or life threatening in any way. They don't do the unprotected headshot with the gimmicked chair very often. I can't pretend to know just how gimmicked the chair is or how much damage it still does, but they certainly don't do that every PPV. 99% of chair shots and weapon shots are to the back or body. The cinder block spots do make me wince. The worst of it seemed to be that Hangman got a nasty graze on his back though. I dunno, I guess I trust them to know what they're doing with stuff like that but I can see why some would feel it's too much. Takayama paralysed himself on a sunset flip, Hayabusa on a lionsault he'd done thousands of times. Wrestling is dangerous and scary at times, so are a lot of real sports and movie stunts, I obviously always hope the worst doesn't happen but I watch them anyway. Guess I'm just a sicko in that way. Edited September 8 by JLM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted September 8 Paid Members Share Posted September 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, RedTwoster said: If people didn’t want to talk about it, the discussion would quickly fizzle out. We’ve seen so many careers end prematurely due to daft spots, so as long as it keeps happening, there will be people who want to talk about it. I mean, heck, Adam Copeland is out for months, on the back of one of those spots - and the clock was already ticking on his career. It’s kind of hard not to bring dangerous spots up on a show full of them. If you’re good with them, that’s fine, just don’t engage with that side of the discussion. There’s plenty of other things to talk about in relation to the show, and these things are being discussed here too. If people find "dangerous" spots puts them off that's totally fine. But fundamentally it's an AEW PPV with a load of grudge matches on it, one of which is Hangman/Swerve no less. We should all know what to expect at this point. Outside of the two cinderblock stunts it seemed to mostly be pretty standard fare bump wise as far as I can remember. My personal view is that every aspect of wrestling is inherently dangerous, risky and stupid and unless they're wrestling a Jerry Lawler Mid South match we're watching these performers fuck themselves up slowly but surely pretty much every time they go out there. If one dangerous spot bothers you because you're worried about the performer it should all worry you, really. We've seen the absolute simplest things lead to horrific injuries and death. Plenty of wrestlers who had a career filled with big crazy bumps are totally fine while others who barely did anything are totally fucked. I don't know what to think really. Edited September 8 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted September 8 Paid Members Share Posted September 8 1 hour ago, Tim Healys Chutney Spoon said: Totally agree. If it's unsanctioned then how comes AEW provide officials? Surely you'd get some non-AEW bod in to do the officials job so that you don't end up with someone from AEW saying 'enough is enough' when, like you say, they shouldn't have any authority. There's a lot more that they could and should have done to get over the unsanctioned gimmick, but one thing I noticed on the rewatch is that Paul Turner wore an unbranded ref shirt, rather than one with the AEW and All Out logos, which all the other refs wore. It would be great if they had someone less recognisably "AEW" in there, but it's also a match with a lot of risk and it needs to have someone in there who they can trust to know all of their medical protocols. Similarly, I'd have wanted to see them make a big show of removing the ring aprons, to strip it of the AEW logo - but with the Draft Kings logo on there as well, there's branding and sponsorship connotations they would have to worry about. An "unsanctioned match" being promoted and headlining a PPV is very silly, but it's made sillier by the ring announcer of the company that's not sanctioning it giving it a ton of hype and ballyhoo, and one of the wrestlers entering to pyro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JLM Posted September 8 Paid Members Share Posted September 8 The referee trying to stop/discourage the use of a chair was the silliest bit for me. It's unsanctioned and they did all manner of other truly insane shit to each other, but he felt the need to try and step in there? It was made even worse because it was used to set up Swerve doing a Buckshot Lariat off the ref's back, which he did not land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted September 8 Paid Members Share Posted September 8 Yeah, that was fucking dreadful. I've always argued that a ref should still try and enforce the rules in a No DQ match - the rules are there to protect the wrestlers, it just means that in that situation the ref isn't empowered to disqualify anyone for breaking them - but that's not what was going on there at all; somebody came up with that spot, and nobody stepped in to say it made no sense in this context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted September 8 Awards Moderator Share Posted September 8 (edited) Bits I really liked: PAC vs. Ospreay. Outstanding match, loved it, exactly what I hoped it’d be. Probably edges out Ospreay-Danielson as my favourite match of his AEW run so far, and probably PAC’s best for ages too. Willow vs. Statlander. Brilliant stunt show with both of them at the top of their game. Great pace, great anger, great everything. Hangman vs. Swerve. They went about it in a different way to the Texas Death Match and it worked for all the reasons explained elsewhere in this thread. Bits I really didn’t like: The Moxley turn. I’d mentioned not really being on board with what he’s doing in the Dynamite thread, this confirms it. Hated hated hated the plastic bag angle. Horrible. JR called it an embarrassment and I know he was in character but I’d like to think he went off script there and I’d agree with him. Even took the shine off the PAC match from earlier in the night, which I’d have thought was impossible an hour or so before this. Mercedes Mone’s finisher. Between that and her terrible music she’s just not working for me at all right now. There were glimmers of greatness with Shida in the match but compare it to Willow-Statlander and it’s night and day. Edited September 8 by HarmonicGenerator The rest of the show was fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Thunderplex Posted September 8 Paid Members Share Posted September 8 Prince Nana doing the dance but in a grumpy style is another example of why he’s a highlight of any show he’s on. Cracks me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffer Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 2 hours ago, LaGoosh said: If people find "dangerous" spots puts them off that's totally fine. But fundamentally it's an AEW PPV with a load of grudge matches on it, one of which is Hangman/Swerve no less. We should all know what to expect at this point. Outside of the two cinderblock stunts it seemed to mostly be pretty standard fare bump wise as far as I can remember. My personal view is that every aspect of wrestling is inherently dangerous, risky and stupid and unless they're wrestling a Jerry Lawler Mid South match we're watching these performers fuck themselves up slowly but surely pretty much every time they go out there. If one dangerous spot bothers you because you're worried about the performer it should all worry you, really. We've seen the absolute simplest things lead to horrific injuries and death. Plenty of wrestlers who had a career filled with big crazy bumps are totally fine while others who barely did anything are totally fucked. I don't know what to think really. Completely ordinary wrestling moves that are more risky than almost all special effect/hardcore/stunt spots: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedTwoster Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 (edited) 3 hours ago, LaGoosh said: If one dangerous spot bothers you because you're worried about the performer it should all worry you, really. We've seen the absolute simplest things lead to horrific injuries and death. Plenty of wrestlers who had a career filled with big crazy bumps are totally fine while others who barely did anything are totally fucked. I don't know what to think really. That’s all fair, and as always you explain your viewpoint really well. I guess I stand on the side of certain spots carrying more risk than others - yes, you’ll get freak accidents; and given the number of simple spots we see take place in wrestling, statistically you’re likely to see a decent number of those. However, certain spots are more dangerous, and if you’re going to do them, I think you have to make them count. Having multiple spots like that on one show waters them down somewhat. I also don’t think head shots, even gimmicked ones, are worth the risk - particularly when several (non-AEW) wrestlers have expressed, when commenting on it, extreme doubt that it would be possible to adequately gimmick a chair to the point this spot is safe. As for the bag angle - and general brutality - most of it isn’t to my taste, but I don’t necessarily object to them doing it. I do think though, if you’re going to do that, you need to squeeze all the value you can from the moments in question, and I don’t think they did by doing the bag spot on the same show as Hangman/Swerve. I guess I view it in a similar way to how I did that old AEW habit of having multiple instances of the same finish on one show. And with the bag, I think you need a good reason to resort to that level of brutality. Had Hangman done this on Swerve, it would have been fitting and made complete sense - and it would have still been shocking.. Moxley doing that on Danielson? If you start a feud like that, where do you go from there? I think they’ve skipped a few story beats, presumably for the sake of rushing something someone thought was a cool idea. (A slightly long-winded explanation, but hopefully it explains my thoughts on the whole thing as well as you explained your viewpoint, @LaGoosh!) Edited September 8 by RedTwoster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted September 8 Paid Members Share Posted September 8 25 minutes ago, RedTwoster said: Moxley doing that on Danielson? If you start a feud like that, where do you go from there? Wrestledream is only 5 weeks away and I'm guessing it's Mox vs Danielson. So really I think starting off with a big angle then going hard with a strong story over a short period of time is where they're going with it. I like a mix of long and short term stories concurrently so in theory it works for me. I'm intrigued to see how it plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 I'm really not sure the bag thing was needed at all. Swerve/Hangman is a pure nasty blood feud but Mox and Danielson had a real bond and relationship that would've been a shocking breakdown and turn regardless of a bag being used or not. I'm pretty sure that segment could've been as impactful without it. Cesaro's involvement. Wheeler's emotion. It really didn't need the bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JLM Posted September 8 Paid Members Share Posted September 8 It's all so Christian had a reason to not come back out again. "Oh sweet, they're turning on Danielson, looks like my cash in is BACK ON. Wait they're doing what? Fucking hell, maybe another night eh?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted September 8 Paid Members Share Posted September 8 12 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said: Cesaro's involvement What him, Dean and Adrian did to Daniel with that bag was uncalled for. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 4 hours ago, SuperBacon said: There were some bits that were a bit rank and unnecessary, but if they're doing it in a controlled environment and way, then sure why not? Sorry to be 'that guy' but I keep hearing this argument and it confuses me. How exactly does one take a powerbomb onto a breeze block or a syringe through the cheek in a 'controlled way'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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