FA Carling Premiership and Milk Cup thread 2024/25

[TibBo]

2 hours ago, Carbomb said:

 

Hell, maybe we should just adopt the mystic approach of name coincidences, like Arsène Wenger at Arsenal, or Pep signing Gvardiol. Perhaps ETH would've done better at the Etihad. I'd say we should've got Unai in, but he very clearly only does well at teams with the word "villa" in the name.

That’s your next manager sorted then…

[King Mal the Glorious]

Best season we've had as a Newcastle fan. If you'd told me at the start of the season (and especially during our shite winter run) we'd win a cup and get Champions League I'd have laughed at you.

We need to heavily invest in the summer, specifically for a new CB, RW and ST. Our first 11 when all fit is great but the moment someone drops out we suffer significantly. A couple of weeks ago we looked nailed on for top 3 then Joelinton picked up an injury and we went to shit.

I've got a few mates from Sunderland so I'm made up for them getting promotion. The derby is always a great occasion, plus it should be an easy 6 points and perhaps a new record for low points

[garynysmon]

On 5/26/2025 at 1:35 PM, Carbomb said:

The way the club's run at the moment, it would ruin Pep.

Of course it would. Pep has always been a flat track bully, completely unproven in terms of managing a side where he doesn’t have the biggest budget in the league and free reign to sign the perfect players.

He couldn’t do anything with that lot and Man Utd’s PSR issues.

[Carbomb]

37 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

Of course it would. Pep has always been a flat track bully, completely unproven in terms of managing a side where he doesn’t have the biggest budget in the league and free reign to sign the perfect players.

He couldn’t do anything with that lot and Man Utd’s PSR issues.

I mean, yeh - but I don't know I would characterise it that way.

It just seems to me that certain managers are only good for certain roles, and Pep is a "Michelin chef" manager - he can't make chicken soup out of chicken shit, but he can make some of the finest chicken soup out of the best ingredients, which is not something every manager can do.

I know I said "we'd ruin Pep", but I meant that as a shorthand to say "we'd ruin the best managers". I also said some pages ago that we'd ruin Ancelotti too, which would probably have worked better.

[Devon Malcolm]

Whether anybody likes it or not, Pep Guardiola revolutionised how football is played. You can make all the claims you want that he'd be nothing without loads of money to spend but he's arguably the most influential football coach of all time, and has backed it up with relentless success. 

[Mr_Danger]

It’s like saying Usain Bolt never proved himself at Sports Day. Pep is one of the best of all time. Show me a team that has improved without him? What’s even more impressive is that he usually leaves them in good shape too. None of this burnout you get with Mourinho where you need a big turn over after he’s gone. There’s a reason he was fast tracked to the top, has stayed there and has always been in a position to have the biggest budgets and best players. Obviously one Kloppo title at plucky little Liverpool is worth more than 100 Pep titles but you can’t deny his greatness. The prick.

 

Also @Carbomb Don Carlo was touched by Everton and carried on being great thereafter. Maybe he’d survive United.

Edited May 27, 2025 by Mr_Danger

[Devon Malcolm]

3 minutes ago, Mr_Danger said:

It’s like saying Usain Bolt never proved himself at Sports Day. Pep is one of the best of all time. Show me a team that has improved without him? What’s even more impressive is that he usually leaves them in good shape too. None of this burnout you get with Mourinho where you need a big turn over after he’s gone. There’s a reason he was fast tracked to the top, has stayed there and has always been in a position to have the biggest budgets and best players. Obviously one Kloppo title at plucky little Liverpool is worth more than 100 Pep titles but you can’t deny his greatness. The prick.

It's the managerial equivalent of 'Messi can't do it on a wet Wednesday in Stoke'. It's nonsense. Plenty of coaches have had the resources that Guardiola has had and practically none of them have anything like the same success or influence.

[garynysmon]

25 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

It's the managerial equivalent of 'Messi can't do it on a wet Wednesday in Stoke'. It's nonsense. Plenty of coaches have had the resources that Guardiola has had and practically none of them have anything like the same success or influence.

I personally hold him responsible for the demise of play it long down the wing and cross it to the big man.

So there.

[Mr_Danger]

6 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

I personally hold him responsible for the demise of play it long down the wing and cross it to the big man.

So there.

If Zlatatn was incapable of running down the wing and whipping a cross in to Messi’a head that’s on Zlatan not Pep!

[Carbomb]

I did say that what he did is not something every manager can do. PSG's a case in point. All that money spent, and no European silverware yet, with all the managers they've had.

And I'm not calling him a Michelin chef to be insulting. I don't believe every manager suits every role on offer. Some managers you get in to stop decline, some you get in to get promotion, some you get in to build teams and systems, and some you get in to win silverware on the regular. They can't all be Busby, Ferguson, or Shankly. Pep seems to be one of those elites - he's never needed to prove he can make chicken soup out of chicken shit, and fair play to him.

[kieranjennings]

18 hours ago, Devon Malcolm said:

Whether anybody likes it or not, Pep Guardiola revolutionised how football is played. You can make all the claims you want that he'd be nothing without loads of money to spend but he's arguably the most influential football coach of all time, and has backed it up with relentless success. 

That's if you ignore the work of Rinus Michels & Johan Cruyff where he developed his style from. None of his ideas are 'new' and were done by those two way before him

[Devon Malcolm]

1 hour ago, kieranjennings said:

That's if you ignore the work of Rinus Michels & Johan Cruyff where he developed his style from. None of his ideas are 'new' and were done by those two way before him

I'm not ignoring anything. He has moulded those ideas into a way of playing that has brought continued success and domestic domination, and a way of playing that wasn't being done on a global scale before he implemented it at Barcelona.

[tiger_rick]

Tbf, I was gonna say that too. I think Dev makes a good point about Pep. Unless you're running a football "banter" page, the arguments about money, etc are just nonsense, but I don't think he's remotely close to being as influential as Cruyff. He's certainly had a massive influence on English football but that's in combination with the rise of pressing and 20 years of technical advancement across all grassroots coaching. Guardiola is definitely a big reason why a load of 4th division teams are trying and failing to play through their own box every week but he's not influenced as many as the man who influenced him.

[kieranjennings]

28 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

I'm not ignoring anything. He has moulded those ideas into a way of playing that has brought continued success and domestic domination, and a way of playing that wasn't being done on a global scale before he implemented it at Barcelona.

Apart from when it was being done by the Dutch - who implemented that style at Barca. Build up, positional play and high pressing - all hallmarks of the Ajax team. That high pressing that inspired Sacchi's Milan and numerous other coaches. 

That influence from Michels and Cruyff was a massive reason Pep got the job after Rijkaard as the club felt they had lost their identity. 

[kieranjennings]

6 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

Tbf, I was gonna say that too. I think Dev makes a good point about Pep. Unless you're running a football "banter" page, the arguments about money, etc are just nonsense, but I don't think he's remotely close to being as influential as Cruyff. He's certainly had a massive influence on English football but that's in combination with the rise of pressing and 20 years of technical advancement across all grassroots coaching. Guardiola is definitely a big reason why a load of 4th division teams are trying and failing to play through their own box every week but he's not influenced as many as the man who influenced him.

Much better pitches too at lower levels and at grassroots! That's a massive reason why more teams lower down now are happy to try and dominate the ball. No way it was possible playing Div 2 around 20 years ago