Addition through subtraction? Improving the AEW and WWE rosters

[Chili]

Doesn't Penta do AEW because it frees him up to work Mexico as that's his thing? Or an I getting the rules wrong again?

@Lokigenuinely asking here, what makes Starks & Britt feel more WWE? That's not a criticism it's merely not being a WWE viewer and not following what they look for? I'm guessing Cody in WWE now is similar to when AEW first began and he was cutting all those superb promos and angles from late 2019 to the start of the pandemic?

[Mr_Danger]

Cody is one of the only guys who I watched for years and saw absolutely nothing special in him right up to his AEW run then one day turned wrestling on and he suddenly had that it factor and I still can’t fathom how he did it. 

There’s definitely AEW guys and WWE guys. MJF fascinates me as a prospective future WWE employee. He’s great but a lot of the joy of him comes from his journey. He’s definitely got the tools and part of what has made him so successful in AEW is how ‘WWE’ he is compared to the workhorses and Indy darlings on the roster but there’s the nagging feeling that he disappears in to the mid card in WWE.

[Loki]

27 minutes ago, Chili said:

 

@Lokigenuinely asking here, what makes Starks & Britt feel more WWE?

Difficult to quantify, it’s mainly a gut feeling.  There’s lot of showmanship in their acts, a lot of appealing to the back row that would translate well into big arenas and glossy WWE entrances.

 They’re both very attractive as well and have matinee looks if you know what I mean.  They’ll get a lot of likes, reposts, sell a lot of merch.

 None of this precludes them from being a success in AEW but there are just certain wrestlers that look like WWE could make a lot of money with/for.

 I’d love to know how AEW merch cheques compare with WWE ones.  I imagine some wrestlers could double their income.  You have to think it’s one of the reasons Jade went there.

 

 

[Chili]

6 minutes ago, Loki said:

Difficult to quantify, it’s mainly a gut feeling.  There’s lot of showmanship in their acts, a lot of appealing to the back row that would translate well into big arenas and glossy WWE entrances.

 They’re both very attractive as well and have matinee looks if you know what I mean.  They’ll get a lot of likes, reposts, sell a lot of merch.

 None of this precludes them from being a success in AEW but there are just certain wrestlers that look like WWE could make a lot of money with/for.

 I’d love to know how AEW merch cheques compare with WWE ones.  I imagine some wrestlers could double their income.  You have to think it’s one of the reasons Jade went there.

 

 

I imagine the merch is vastly different and WWE probably coins in more as the biggest promotion with the bigger machine (regardless of AEW owned wealth). But on the flip for the AEW side they can also have their own merch etc, which probably doesn't equal WWE either, but they can at least market themselves and actually have merch. Matt Cardona being a super example of how to spin that.

[DavidB6937]

8 minutes ago, Chili said:

Matt Cardona being a super example of how to spin that.

A very good example of something to aim for, much like Cody Rhodes. Get out there, find yourself, reinvent yourself etc. It's always interesting to see who thrives with the freedom vs who does better with the massive machine behind them.

[LaGoosh]

1 hour ago, RedRooster said:

I honestly think it points to the level of defensiveness people have about anything AEW-related.

In the kindest possible way, I think you need to stop immediately assuming that every time someone disagrees with you or questions your posts it's because they are being over sensitive or overly defensive of AEW. Maybe they just disagreed with you, are making a joke or believed you have a bad or incorrect take on something.

As for your ten - Mox is the heart and soul of AEW and should stay there forever. Kingston, the realest man in wrestling, would never thrive in the artificial environment of WWE. I don't think Penta would get anywhere notable in WWE and would never mesh with the WWE ring style - he's being massively underutilised in AEW though for sure. And Jay White just needs the right push to get back on track in AEW, I can't imagine WWE doing much with him.

My ten:

1. Chris Jericho - obvious "he's shite now" jokes aside, I think he probably does his best work when he feels he has to prove himself. It'd be interesting to see him fight for a spot in the "new era" of WWE and what he'd come up with.

2. Wardlow - he's hit a ceiling in AEW but there feels like there's something there and he just needs experience to unlock it which WWE would be able to give him.

3. Adam Cole - MJF tag team aside, he's never worked in AEW but he seems to be well thought of by Triple H and HBK so he'd probably get a good push back in WWE.

4. Britt Baker - done it all in AEW while being also pretty shite in the ring but her personality could get her far in WWE.

5. Jeremy Bowens - I like him a lot. But I don't think he's ever going to reach the level of wrestling that AEW requires from its top stars. I can't see him putting on a 5 star match. But he's young, good looking, likeable, charismatic and in WWE, the land of 3 star matches, he could do very well.

6. Sammy Guevara - probably the most overpushed wrestler in AEW history but I reckon WWE could get something more out of him. With the right guidance and training could fit into a Dominic Mysterio or early Miz type slot and do pretty good for himself. Already pretty much wrestles the WWE style so would be up and running quickly.

7. John Silver - love him to death and a huge wasted opportunity by AEW. In WWE he could easily be a very successful modern day Crash Holly.

8. Ricky Starks - AEW for unknown reasons are never going to get behind him and he seemingly wants out so farewell. Can't see him doing anything but fill one of the experienced vets at NXT type roles though.

9. Preston Vance - bit of a nothing act but he looks good and is a solid meat and potatoes type worker. Maybe some time at the PC will bring something out of him.

10. All Ego Ethan Page - another guy I really like but they have no interest in pushing him for reasons unknown so yeah send him off to WWE. He'd fit in very easily and shine as a midcard heel there.

 

[air_raid]

Chalk me up as another who has “Dr Britt Baker DMD” down as a natural fit for WWE: Firstly, she has her character nailed already. Secondly, they need some new heels - Damage CTRL are finished, Rhea isn’t really a heel, they’re bound to try and bring Charlotte back as a face, short of turning Belair they’re lacking badly for a baddie. Finally, I really like Lockjaw, always had a weakness for a unique finish that isn’t shit.

As an aside… I can’t believe someone actually took the midcarders favourite lazy choice, Roll The Dice/The Testdrive/Last Rites/Heros Welcome all the way to winning the big belt at Mania 40.

 

[Infinity Land]

19 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

And Jay White just needs the right push to get back on track in AEW, I can't imagine WWE doing much with him.

I'm not sure on that front. There was the strongest rumour at the time he was off to WWE, only for the WWE hiring freeze to bite when the sale was going through. Considering some of the ex-NXT acts on the main roster, he would have found his way there. If he had spent the past year in WWE he'd be in a much better spot than he is now i'd reckon.

[Hannibal Scorch]

3 hours ago, RedRooster said:

Even if you accepted this as true, the current regime hasn't been in place long enough to undo much of the damage caused by Vince McMahon. But every metric I could throw at you would suggest you're wrong - live attendances, revenue, TV ratings - they're on a hot streak. But the attempts to make wins and losses count, and to build wrestlers that matter are there - I'd point to Rhea Ripley, Drew McIntyre, Gunther, Sami Zayn and even Ricochet. 

 

I never suggested they were. This is weird thing to say because I never suggested that. Of course they are doing phenomenal business, but that has nothing to do with my point. And you have, rightly picked 4 people they really have been trying to build (Priest over Riccochet though, he’s been jobbed out too often too long to make his recent win record mean much. 

3 hours ago, RedRooster said:

Again, it's relatively early in the new regime - but it's far from the best batch of NXT talent they've ever had. Hence the point in this topic. Who would you shift over to WWE, following the rules of the original post?

- Sami

- Owens

- Ricochet

- Chelsea Green

- Piper

- Balor 

- Trick Williams

- Chad Gabel

- Bayley

- R-Truth

3 hours ago, RedRooster said:

Well yeah, this was pretty deliberate. Cody was the first major jump to WWE, and they wanted to signify that by keeping his presentation intact, so that it would feel like a jump. I'm not sure why you view having similar music as being a problem as far as Jade is concerned? Both of them are bigger deals for being in WWE - and I think you'd struggle to argue otherwise. I'm genuinely not trying to be 'rah-rah-WWE' here, but I'm not sure there's a wrestler who feels bigger because they're in AEW, such is the damage that has been done to the brand - and that wasn't always the case, and doesn't have to be the case going forward. 

I think that opinion is largely led by vague jibes people throw at AEW presentation in general. That said Trips made a big deal about how Jade was mistreated in AEW training wise and now she’s in the best place. 6 months down in the PC and she’s exactly the same. But I appreciate if your ambition is to get my attention from outside opportunities (like acting) you’d be a fool not to go to the biggest circus in town, which is the WWE.

3 hours ago, RedRooster said:

Firstly, not all talent needs to be top tier. Secondly, LA Knight is shifting merchandise like nobody's business, and is popular to the point he's appearing in adverts for Slim Jims. I don't necessarily understand the appeal, but there's little doubt that he's had cut through. When did they pivot with Sami, Owens or Gable? Sami didn't win the World title, but he ended Gunther's historic IC title reign and main-evented Wrestlemania. Owens has main-evented two Wrestlemanias, one of which was against Steve Austin. Chad Gable isn't gaining a huge crowd reaction, so it would have been hard to justify pitting him against Gunther at 'Mania, but it's pretty clear he has a longer term storyline going on with Zayn, and attempts to give him more prominence haven't finished. 

 

CM Punk sold tons of merch the first time round, but the ratings were down when he was at the top of the tower. Of course they want merch sellers, but my point is being over with the crowd is different than people paying to see you. People are paying for Cody and Roman, not LA Knight. It’s the Fandango effect. And in my original point the problem seems to be they either don’t pull the trigger at the time (and yeah, it was great Sami got his flowers, but it felt bittersweet because of the delay imo) or they just don’t build them up properly.

It’s a testing time. Roman was the figure head for almost 4 years. He’s gone. Cody is now leading the way and his promos have been disappointing, albeit not surprising. He’s got the Hangman issue of being more dynamic chasing the title than winning, something I saw when Cody had his TNT runs. But I want him to do well, nicest man in the business, but if he got injured tomorrow they would be buggered.

[DavidB6937]

What does LA Knight have to do to stop getting the Fandango comparison?

 

[Chili]

5 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

What does LA Knight have to do to stop getting the Fandango comparison?

 

I still think he looks like a jazzed Rob Conway.

[RedRooster]

1 hour ago, LaGoosh said:

In the kindest possible way, I think you need to stop immediately assuming that every time someone disagrees with you or questions your posts it's because they are being over sensitive or overly defensive of AEW. Maybe they just disagreed with you, are making a joke or believed you have a bad or incorrect take on something.

I don’t assume that at all. I really don’t mind people disagreeing with me - heck, I’ve changed my opinions on a lot of things based on posts on here. At the risk of sounding like Iike a big-headed arsehole, I feel like I’m pretty open-minded and happy to admit when I’m wrong. However, like I said, if you're having to justify the context of a hypothetical thread - a thread that, ultimately, is just a bit of fun, it’s hard not to roll your hold your hands up and call it what it is. 

We all have our individual blind spots and biases, and I totally understand why some people have that when it comes to AEW. The company gave a lot of people permission to love wrestling again, after years of awfulness and - at times - actual evil in Vince McMahon’s WWE. But fuck me, we’ve gone three pages before someone made choices of their own, my picks weren’t that controversial - the whole point of the thread was to force people to trim the upper card to remove bloat.

30 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

- Sami

- Owens

- Ricochet

- Chelsea Green

- Piper

- Balor 

- Trick Williams

- Chad Gabel

- Bayley

- R-Truth

I think you misread or misunderstood my question, Scorchers. I meant who would you shift from AEW to WWE, to remove bloat and free up space for those who remain to shine, and for others to break through. Arguing against the premise, of course, is perfectly valid. The suggestion that AEW has too many wrestlers didn’t originate with me, although I do agree with it.

30 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

I never suggested they were. This is weird thing to say because I never suggested that.

No, but it can be used to argue against the suggestion that WWE isn’t doing a good job of building/creating stars. It’s an ensemble cast for sure, but evidently people care about that ensemble - and merchandise sales and crowd reactions back that up. In the McMahon era, your suggestion had merit. And I do think they need to recruit well (hence the very point of this thread) as the current NXT class is very uninspiring. On paper, AEW has a better roster - but they’re having difficulty making that count.

EDIT:

29 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

It’s a testing time. Roman was the figure head for almost 4 years. He’s gone. Cody is now leading the way and his promos have been disappointing, albeit not surprising. He’s got the Hangman issue of being more dynamic

Although I disagree with this assessment, the guy has only been champion for a week!

Edited April 15 by RedRooster

[DavidB6937]

I definitely think a lot of it will come down to where people are in their careers and in their personal lives too. If they're young and not too tied down then they may well be more open to WWE's style of the grind. But if AEW offers more opportunity to see family etc then it's all about different priorities really isn't it. The WWE machine isn't for everyone and it's great that there are other viable alternatives whether that's AEW or TNA or indies in general. I've said it before but I love the excitement of people jumping from one company to the other. That was always one of the best things about WCW being around back in the day. And as much as WWE wouldn't want to admit it, having AEW around has definitely forced them to become better.

I don't have too many specifics as I think anyone getting a new opportunity somewhere else can be exciting. Who would've thought Toni Storm would be doing what she's doing now? I wasn't that bothered about Christian or Adam Copeland. And in the other direction Brian Pillman Jr is setting the world on fire! A dumpster fire but still.

Genuinely sometimes all it takes is a new place and a different perspective and everything clicks in a way it never did before. I'm definitely a lot more open minded to all of it now after seeing the work guys like Rhodes and Cardona have put in and how the ones like Storm commit to something completely different.

[RedRooster]

6 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

Genuinely sometimes all it takes is a new place and a different perspective and everything clicks in a way it never did before. I'm definitely a lot more open minded to all of it now after seeing the work guys like Rhodes and Cardona have put in and how the ones like Storm commit to something completely different.

I couldn’t agree with you more with any of this. I’d also point to Steve Maclin in Impact, and, looking further back, Bobby Lashley. Remove his TNA run from history, and I’m not sure he’d have ever been WWE champion; never mind have had people calling for WWE to resign him. Same goes for Matt Hardy - as stale as he is now, his TNA run reinvigorated him in a way very few would have predicted. Aaron Stevens, in NWA, also managed to prove that there was more to him than the Damian Sandow character. It may well be that the most interesting switches are wrestlers you simply wouldn’t consider as being ‘big gets’. 

[DavidB6937]

5 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

I couldn’t agree with you more with any of this. I’d also point to Steve Maclin in Impact, and, looking further back, Bobby Lashley. Remove his TNA run from history, and I’m not sure he’d have ever been WWE champion; never mind have had people calling for WWE to resign him. Same goes for Matt Hardy - as stale as he is now, his TNA run reinvigorated him in a way very few would have predicted. Aaron Stevens, in NWA, also managed to prove that there was more to him than the Damian Sandow character. It may well be that the most interesting switches are wrestlers you simply wouldn’t consider as being ‘big gets’. 

TNA/Impact has been one of the best places for people to reach higher levels. Although when Lashley came back I'd heard a lot of good things about him and it took WWE a fair while to really figure something out with him, so it's not always plain sailing. But yeah I think a lot of the time it is the ones that get lost in the shuffle and either get more focus or freedom and something suddenly clicks. Tale as old as time really - Taker, Austin, Rock, Cena etc.. all it takes is one moment or a gimmick shift and the whole game changes.