Addition through subtraction? Improving the AEW and WWE rosters

[gmoney]

Your mileage may vary...

[Chili]

43 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

Because it's a hypothetical topic, WWE is the other major company (the bigger names aren't going to TNA, are they?) and I disgagree with your assessment of WWE's roster - they could do with a few more stars to pad out RAW, Smackdown and even NXT. The perfect example to illustrate this is by removing Cody from the roster. If he's not there, who does Roman lose to? There's no obvious choice - although you could make a case for people like Sami or Drew, they're not as 'nailed on' as Cody is. 

WWE, simply put, does not face the same problem as AEW, as far as having too many wrestlers go. It's the opposite problem, and they could do with a refresh.

Can I ask you a hypothetical follow up? What do you do with who in AEW after you've taken some of their biggest and most identifiable acts and merch sellers? You've outlined the plan for them in WWE so I'd love to see what you do the strengthen AEW. Would these people all leave at once?

Edited April 15 by Chili
Having an absolute mare, I say having an absolute mare here Ashley

[Chili]

43 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

 

Double post, sorry

Edited April 15 by Chili

[Chili]

42 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

 

TRIPLE POST. FUCKING HELL. THANKS PHONE!!!

Edited April 15 by Chili

[air_raid]

There is a pair I'd love to see back in WWE, but I doubt very much she'd go back.

[RedRooster]

 

18 minutes ago, Chili said:

Can I ask you a hypothetical follow up? What do you do with who in AEW after you've taken some of their biggest and most identifiable acts and merch sellers? You've outlined the plan for them in WWE so I'd love to see what you do the strengthen AEW. Would these people all leave at once?

I'm genuinely surprised I'm being asked this question; and I honestly think it points to the level of defensiveness people have about anything AEW-related. Again, it's hypothetical, so when they leave is totally irrelevant. It's not actually going to happen. The idea is a challenge based around the idea the AEW roster is too bloated - to debloat it, in a way that forces people who would rather not see talent shift to WWE, to move talent to WWE. 

I don't mind people questioning my choices or thinking it's a shit topic, but fuck me, when you have someone suggesting that Penta - who has only wrestled twice on Dynamite this year*, and has never (as far as I can recall) had a PPV singles match - is indispensable, how can I not roll my eyes?

The answer to your question is in the original post: 

2 hours ago, RedRooster said:

my vision for the brand would be forward looking - you watch AEW, and you see the next generation of megastars emerge. And Dustin Rhodes. 

I think AEW would be better off with less multi-person matches, and more singles feuds - and I also think AEW was at its best when it was all about watching new faces emerge, and when the focus is on singles feuds. Most of the wrestlers I chose to shift are undercarders, or barely feature - but to free up space, you have to move some wrestlers who actually do feature. I really buy into the idea Paul Heyman had for TNA - turning it into the young, hungry alternative; where the main event scene predominantly consists of wrestlers who have not wrestled for WWE before. Personally, I think a main event scene involving wrestlers like Ospreay, MJF, Takeshita, Darby, Fenix, Okada, Rush, Bowens, Garcia, Swerve and Hangman - with a few older talents who have carved out their own identities in AEW such as Christian Cage, Samoa Joe and FTR is far more exciting than what we get now. Yes, you lose top level talent - but you have a better show, that over time, has the potential to be much more enjoyable. 

 

*Yes, I'm aware that he's wrestled on Collision and Rampage. 

[DavidB6937]

I was hoping from the title that you were just going to put Scott Steiner in there somewhere.

[Chili]

Thank you for answering my question but don't accuse me of being defensive either, I just wanted a follow up to what you'd do on the other side and you answered it hypothetically which was the idea of your topic and everyone's brain will process the topic differently. 

You did miss a trick keeping Jay Lethal though.

Edited April 15 by Chili

[air_raid]

8 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

I was hoping from the title that you were just going to put Scott Steiner in there somewhere.

[Hannibal Scorch]

2 hours ago, RedRooster said:

Because it's a hypothetical topic, WWE is the other major company (the bigger names aren't going to TNA, are they?) and I disgagree with your assessment of WWE's roster - they could do with a few more stars to pad out RAW, Smackdown and even NXT. The perfect example to illustrate this is by removing Cody from the roster. If he's not there, who does Roman lose to? There's no obvious choice - although you could make a case for people like Sami or Drew, they're not as 'nailed on' as Cody is. 

WWE, simply put, does not face the same problem as AEW, as far as having too many wrestlers go. It's the opposite problem, and they could do with a refresh.

WWE's problem is not roster size. Once again it's because they aren't building stars. Cody was ready to go from his debut and is pretty much the same as he was in AEW in terms of presentation. Same thing with Jade even down to her music being a knock off of her AEW music. But simply put they are not making new stars. Jay Uso was an attempt, he is over with the crowd, but he isn't top tier talent. Same with LA Knight. Then you have people like Sami, Kevin Owens, Chad Gable who are bubbling under but when they were good to go, they pivoted. I honestly think we are just a few mere bad booking decisions away before the wheels start to fall off again, not that I think it will revert back to the 2019 era of garbage, but I do think it could lose momentum again. What is the point of NXT if they don't use it to build new stars and push them properly when they are called up?

[RedRooster]

49 minutes ago, Chili said:

Thank you for answering my question but don't accuse me of being defensive either, I just wanted a follow up to what you'd do on the other side and you answered it hypothetically which was the idea of your topic and everyone's brain will process the topic differently. 

That's fair - I don't mean to accuse you specifically of being defensive, I should have been clearer with my wording. But I think - in a general sense - a blind spot exists with AEW, that hurts people when it comes to answering questions about AEW that suggests weakness. 

49 minutes ago, Chili said:

You did miss a trick keeping Jay Lethal though.

Part of the challenge is ensuring both companies benefit - meaning that ditching people like Lethal or Jericho to WWE wouldn't really work; particularly on the back of the McMahon allegations as they try to show that they've changed. If Jericho didn't have NDA-related mutterings surrounding him, I'd absolutely suggest he move to WWE. If he's going to have a final run, it's best he does it a landscape where he might feel refreshed. I'm not sure that was ever going to happen in AEW, even if allegations hadn't been made. 

1 minute ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

WWE's problem is not roster size. Once again it's because they aren't building stars. 

Even if you accepted this as true, the current regime hasn't been in place long enough to undo much of the damage caused by Vince McMahon. But every metric I could throw at you would suggest you're wrong - live attendances, revenue, TV ratings - they're on a hot streak. But the attempts to make wins and losses count, and to build wrestlers that matter are there - I'd point to Rhea Ripley, Drew McIntyre, Gunther, Sami Zayn and even Ricochet. 

8 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Cody was ready to go from his debut and is pretty much the same as he was in AEW in terms of presentation. Same thing with Jade even down to her music being a knock off of her AEW music.

Well yeah, this was pretty deliberate. Cody was the first major jump to WWE, and they wanted to signify that by keeping his presentation intact, so that it would feel like a jump. I'm not sure why you view having similar music as being a problem as far as Jade is concerned? Both of them are bigger deals for being in WWE - and I think you'd struggle to argue otherwise. I'm genuinely not trying to be 'rah-rah-WWE' here, but I'm not sure there's a wrestler who feels bigger because they're in AEW, such is the damage that has been done to the brand - and that wasn't always the case, and doesn't have to be the case going forward. 

11 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

But simply put they are not making new stars. Jay Uso was an attempt, he is over with the crowd, but he isn't top tier talent. Same with LA Knight. Then you have people like Sami, Kevin Owens, Chad Gable who are bubbling under but when they were good to go, they pivoted.

Firstly, not all talent needs to be top tier. Secondly, LA Knight is shifting merchandise like nobody's business, and is popular to the point he's appearing in adverts for Slim Jims. I don't necessarily understand the appeal, but there's little doubt that he's had cut through. When did they pivot with Sami, Owens or Gable? Sami didn't win the World title, but he ended Gunther's historic IC title reign and main-evented Wrestlemania. Owens has main-evented two Wrestlemanias, one of which was against Steve Austin. Chad Gable isn't gaining a huge crowd reaction, so it would have been hard to justify pitting him against Gunther at 'Mania, but it's pretty clear he has a longer term storyline going on with Zayn, and attempts to give him more prominence haven't finished. 

17 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

What is the point of NXT if they don't use it to build new stars and push them properly when they are called up?

Again, it's relatively early in the new regime - but it's far from the best batch of NXT talent they've ever had. Hence the point in this topic. Who would you shift over to WWE, following the rules of the original post?

[DavidB6937]

16 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

But simply put they are not making new stars.

See, I think they've got more 'over' people on their roster now than in years. Not everyone has to be the champ or the main event to be a star surely? In fact I'd argue it's really important not to be too top heavy and to actually have a roster where there's 'over' acts beginning, middle and end of shows. And I think that's something they've done very well recently - focus on acts like Judgment Day, Gunther, Alpha Academy, Sami Zayn, Jey Uso, Pretty Deadly, LA Knight, DIY, Dunne/Bate etc. There's definite effort and time spent there to try and find a spot for people and see what works. Absolutely you can argue that some aren't as over as perhaps they could/should be - Ricochet for example - and there's time wasted on people like Kross. BUT I do think they're trying a lot more than they were.

 

 

[Loki]

Congratulations everyone for taking a potentially fun little topic and dragging it down into a WWE v AEW debate again and arguing over the rules.

@RedRooster I think your list isn't a bad shout although I think Dannhausen belongs on the indies, or preferably not at all as he's awful.

Moxley I've said many times is wasted in AEW.  He's being allowed to do exactly what he wants, which is random bloody matches across the Indies and Japan with an occasional bloody match on AEW tv when he has the time.  I'm sure he's loving it but his star has very much faded, and he would slot straight into some of the biggest main event stories in years in WWE, so it's a no-brainer.

I can't see a place for Eddie Kingston in WWE.  For me, he's quickly become the heart and soul of AEW - if it's not a place for wrestlers like him, what IS it for?  Unlike so many of the ex-WWE guys who came over for a "proper push" and discovered they were the issue, Eddie finally got his shot and has made himself beloved, the crazy out of shape lunatic.  Unless the WWE were prepared to make him their modern Mick Foley, I just think he wouldn't work in the Fed.

Ricky Starks and Britt Baker both feel like more natural WWE stars anyway.  To that list I'd add Jamie Hayter when she's healthy, she pisses charisma.  Although AEW can't really afford to lose her to be fair.

Penta was the first name I thought of when I read the topic.  He always strikes me as a genuine main eventer, such a talent and such a look, but he's always just... knocking around, taking losses and tagging randomly with people depending on his brother's health.  Put a bit of WWE spit and polish on the gimmick, some decent lighting in his entrance and he'd be selling merchandise all round the block.  WWE have wanted a Mysterio replacement for years, and seem to have settled on replacing Mysterio with himself but a lot older.  So Penta could be the masked star they've been searching for.

[DavidB6937]

1 minute ago, Loki said:

Moxley I've said many times is wasted in AEW.  He's being allowed to do exactly what he wants, which is random bloody matches across the Indies and Japan with an occasional bloody match on AEW tv when he has the time.  I'm sure he's loving it but his star has very much faded, and he would slot straight into some of the biggest main event stories in years in WWE, so it's a no-brainer.

I can't see a place for Eddie Kingston in WWE.  For me, he's quickly become the heart and soul of AEW - if it's not a place for wrestlers like him, what IS it for?  Unlike so many of the ex-WWE guys who came over for a "proper push" and discovered they were the issue, Eddie finally got his shot and has made himself beloved, the crazy out of shape lunatic.  Unless the WWE were prepared to make him their modern Mick Foley, I just think he wouldn't work in the Fed.

I think I agree with Kingston. The genuine authenticity he has.. I'm just not sure WWE is the place for that. Sure, you get it from Cody occasionally in his post-match stuff, but he couldn't be more robotic/WWE-esque on screen if he tried. Plus I just don't buy Kingston as a guy who wants to succeed in a place like WWE.

Mox is a difficult one. I think he likes the freedom too much to go back. At least for now anyway. Sure, he'd absolutely slot into a top spot in WWE, but is that what he wants? If he loses that freedom, do we lose Mox as he is now? And if we do, is that what anyone wants? I guess there's no way of telling - especially considering how Punk has been since he's been back, despite all the previous challenges he had with the company. But then he has them with everyone everywhere so.. bit different to Mox.

[RedRooster]

 

15 minutes ago, Loki said:

I can't see a place for Eddie Kingston in WWE.  For me, he's quickly become the heart and soul of AEW - if it's not a place for wrestlers like him, what IS it for?  Unlike so many of the ex-WWE guys who came over for a "proper push" and discovered they were the issue, Eddie finally got his shot and has made himself beloved, the crazy out of shape lunatic.  Unless the WWE were prepared to make him their modern Mick Foley, I just think he wouldn't work in the Fed.

That's what AEW was - but I think it's moved on from that; with its identity - at least its current identity - being the home of great wrestling. Eddie Kingston is a good wrestler, but he's also a very authentic character; who has the ability to get over via his mic work. Pit him against Paul Heyman, Drew McIntyre, Sami or Cody and you have a compelling segment. He's the kind of wrestler who would have worked brilliantly well in a Brock Lesnar match - taking a vicious beating, yet continuing to get up regardless. I suppose you could apply the same formula to Gunther. I'm not entirely sure that Vince McMahon would have understood the appeal in Kingston, but I'm pretty sure Triple H would - I'm not only confident that Kingston would be a prominent wrestler in WWE, I think he'd end up being one of the most over wrestlers in the company. 

I wouldn't have said this a few years ago, but I think he'll struggle to consistently feature in the main events in AEW. He absolutely should; but with wrestlers like Okada, Ospreay, Joe, Strickland, Omega, Jay White and MJF waiting in the wings, he's facing an uphill battle when it comes to holding a World title. In WWE, with the roster split, I could easily see audience support carrying him to a World title win - or, alternatively, a tremendous heel run in which he feuds with some of the biggest stars. Cody vs. Kingston? Cody Vs. Kingston? Cena vs. Kingston? I could see it, and I'm totally on board. 

Weirdly, I think there are more opportunities for him to be prominent in WWE.