Summerslam: Down Since Day One Ish

[d-d-d-dAz]

I don’t know, I don’t know that’s how jealousy works; if that’s the route they go down, it’ll be ‘I don’t want you to have this at all, you don’t deserve it.’

Jealousy rarely allows someone even higher status before taking it away, that’s too rational. He’s furious, he wants to hurt Jey, prove Jey’s nothing without him. Letting him be THE GUY, even for a month, wouldn’t make sense at all.

[Supremo]

That’s the case for all fiction though, isn’t it? Whilst we can’t truly judge something as a whole until it’s finished, it can still reach a point where it feels like it’s dragging or going around in circles.

You can give up on a book, film, game or TV series early if the story beats start repeating or you become bored of the characters or narrative. Same thing here. If anything, you have to judge pro-wrestling in the moment more than most mediums because by its nature it never ends, so the creators have to display some semblance of self control and decide when things should naturally conclude in a satisfying manner.

That’s what Hunter kept banging on about after they dropped that bollock at Wrestlemania. Explaining that any fans complaining about Cody losing didn’t understand what they were doing.

“Tomorrow night on Raw at the sold out Crypto Arena, the story continues, the story takes another chapter.”

Only really works if the next chapter is still as enjoyable and reaches a more satisfying conclusion though, Trips. Doesn’t work if it meanders for months on end, getting worse and worse and making less and less sense. You aren’t telling a good story if everyone gives up on it early. This isn’t an essay where you have to reach a particular word count.

Love The Bloodline saga being described similar to, “Lost,” though. All will be forgiven if they recognise it needs a kick up the arse so do a time travel episode as good as, “The Constant,” with Desmond. Have Sami Zayn go back in time and then call Kevin Owens.

“I love you Kevin! I’ve always loved you!”

 

[DavidB6937]

But who has given up on it though? Apart from some people moaning about it the PPVs and weekly shows are constantly breaking records. Is there much evidence that this IS being dragged on for too long and ruining things?

Just curious as to whether its actually detrimental to their business yet or not. I can totally understand the stance of being fed up of it but is there anything WWE should actually be concerned about ratings or business wise? How are the Bloodline segments doing now compared to when it was "good" etc?

[Hannibal Scorch]

49 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

But who has given up on it though? Apart from some people moaning about it the PPVs and weekly shows are constantly breaking records. Is there much evidence that this IS being dragged on for too long and ruining things?

Just curious as to whether its actually detrimental to their business yet or not. I can totally understand the stance of being fed up of it but is there anything WWE should actually be concerned about ratings or business wise? How are the Bloodline segments doing now compared to when it was "good" etc?

Woah woah. What records? Yes, they are making more money than they ever have because everything has gone up in price. But Raw used to average around 7 million per week. On Cable. Smackdown on Network TV gets around 2/2.5m. Raw, on the same cable network, gets 1.5m. PPV business is dead because they are included on the network (premium live events are still available on PPV but the buyrates are tiny). Whilst a ringside seat at such an event will cost 4 figures, time will tell if attendance starts to drop because people are buying those tickets often 6 months or so in advance. 
 

TL:DR They are the most profitable they have ever been, even though ratings and PPV buys are down.

@Supremoanother excellent post, I also question WHY the Bloodline story is so good. I mean people have talked about, even here, it’s the greatest wrestling storyline ever. But no-one can actually explain what makes it so. If it’s how long it’s been going, it’s certainly an argument, but I’ve seen better stories told in a fraction of the time in multiple wrestling companies that I’ve enjoyed then this, and most haven’t overstayed their welcome.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Hannibal Scorch

[d-d-d-dAz]

Erm, that’s pretty disingenuous. You can’t say ‘ratings are down on 25 years ago, people are clearly turned off by the Bloodline story’.

To be fair to DavidNumbers, they have repeatedly broke their own records on their existing networks with Bloodline stuff. That’s true.

And per something I’ve just googled “Each WWE premium live event (WrestleMania, Backlash and Night of Champions) in the latest quarter “set global unique viewership records, with year-over-year increases of 29 percent, 34 percent and 45 percent, respectively,” the company also said on Wednesday. Live events revenue jumped 51 percent, “reflecting continued strong demand for domestic and international events.”

Compared to recent years, they’re flying. That’s indisputable.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/wwe-record-revenue-second-quarter-earnings-wrestlemania-ratings-tickets-1235547806/amp/
 

That’s not to say things don’t go into decline now because people are bored of the latest twist in the tale - they could well do - but recent business has definitely been up across revenue, yes, but also viewership. They’re probably not pulling the rip cord just yet because lots of Twitter apparently wasn’t keen.

 

 

[DavidB6937]

10 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

 

@Supremoanother excellent post, I also question WHY the Bloodline story is so good. I mean people have talked about, even here, it’s the greatest wrestling storyline ever. But no-one can actually explain what makes it so. If it’s how long it’s been going, it’s certainly an argument, but I’ve seen better stories told in a fraction of the time in multiple wrestling companies that I’ve enjoyed then this, and most haven’t overstayed their welcome.

I'm going to ignore the weird stuff about historic wrestling business because that's just a load of nonsense.

As for why people believe so strongly in it - why do they have to justify it? That's such an odd stance to take. Like why should anyone even have to convince YOU? They're enjoying it. They're absorbed and sucked in and they're liking the ups and downs. And guess what? That's fucking okay whether you agree with it or not.

You're not here to allow someone to enjoy something or not. If you enjoyed something else then great. Good for you. But this weird stance you take of not liking something and then expecting everyone else to convince you otherwise is just very very strange. No one cares whether you enjoyed it as well or not.

They only care about their own enjoyment and they shouldn't have to waste their time worrying about whether you agree or not.

[Hannibal Scorch]

 

33 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Erm, that’s pretty disingenuous. You can’t say ‘ratings are down on 25 years ago, people are clearly turned off by the Bloodline story’.

I didn’t say that. I was pointing out Davidnumbers was talking nonsense about them breaking records with weekly TV. How can they if 5 million people a week aren’t watching when they did before? If ratings go down going forward, then I could say it’s the Bloodline. But it won’t be an immediate thing, people don’t leave in droves after 1 thing happening. Most wrestling viewers do so out of habit so you have to do a lot wrong, for a good while, to lose someone forever.

 

33 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

To be fair to DavidNumbers, they have repeatedly broke their own records on their existing networks with Bloodline stuff. That’s true.

And per something I’ve just googled “Each WWE premium live event (WrestleMania, Backlash and Night of Champions) in the latest quarter “set global unique viewership records, with year-over-year increases of 29 percent, 34 percent and 45 percent, respectively,” the company also said on Wednesday. Live events revenue jumped 51 percent, “reflecting continued strong demand for domestic and international events.”

Compared to recent years, they’re flying. That’s indisputable.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/wwe-record-revenue-second-quarter-earnings-wrestlemania-ratings-tickets-1235547806/amp/
 

So what I said in terms of their revenue. Ticket prices, up, merchandise costs, up = more revenue. Are they selling 50% more? In terms of tickets probably not because unless you booked smaller venues, ticket sales won’t increase much but your bottom line was. And as to watching the PPV or PLE. Wrestlemania used to cost $50 plus to watch. That’s now $9.99. I would love to see a comparison of pre network launch mania to this year and compare the Network revenue vs PPV model. 
 

WWE are the industry leaders, and have been for decades for a reason. That’s not being disputed by me. I can say the product is as enjoyable for me as mid/late 00’s - 2012 was, which is not very. But it doesn’t matter what I think, I’m just not going to watch anymore and go back to reading results.

@DavidB6937 I’ll offer you the same courtesy you did and just ignore your points and just say, I was talking about conversations I’ve been having with fellow wrestling fans in real life. If I wanted to ask you why you like it, I would have. Muted

Edited August 7, 2023 by Hannibal Scorch
Anger management

[Supremo]

As a whole, The Bloodline storyline has been fantastic. There’s been some phenomenal segments, some genuinely gripping moments and characters and threads to really sink your teeth into. It’s lit their business on fire like nothing in decades and has created a quantum leap in terms of something worth watching and following week-to-week. For what felt like years you could tune out for months and miss nothing. And then this masterpiece came out of nowhere. Before this, how many WWE storylines over the last five to ten years could you even create a YouTube playlist of? I can’t think of many. Certainly none you’d want to watch.

The problem is that it’s deteriorated massively since Wrestlemania and is very quickly turning into every other WWE/NXT melodrama storyline, with people just turning on each other, doing shocked faces and shouting exposition into the heavens. No wonder Ciampa and Gargano have had fuck all to do for the last year or so. There’s a family of Samoans playing their roles. With each passing week, it’s becoming clearer and clearer that the real meat of the story, and what truly elevated it, was everything involving the late, great Sami Zayn. Remember him? A sympathetic, tragic, lovable, endearing, lost soul being used and gaslit by the evil, horrible bastards. Genuinely, the most complex, interesting character they may have ever had. That was the money. That’s what was worth tuning in for every week. On a kayfabe level to see if he’d finally stand up for himself, but equally on a meta level to see who he could make corpse on live TV. Such joyous television. Ever since though? It’s just your typical Triple H and HBK tropes, stretched out for months and months. Typically, they didn’t even realise what worked in the first place, convinced themselves Sami was a, “fad,” and so ploughed forward with what they always do. It’s funny, really. Before Sami, the Bloodline stuff was mostly boring shit, with guys SHOUTING THEIR FEELINGS AT EACH OTHER IN SLOW MOTION MATCHES, and now Sami’s gone we’re right back where we started. A Sami Zayn sandwich. Made with shit bread.

Admittedly, they’re still white hot, selling out arenas nationwide, but that’s always how wrestling works, isn’t it? You can run on fumes of what was previously successful for a long, long time. If you aren’t pro-active in recognising your failures and staying ahead of the curves, then by the time you realise the rot has long since set in. Hopefully I’m wrong and they’ve got something massive to save this, but right now? Both the Montreal and Wrestlemania finishes continue to age like milk.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Supremo

[Guest]

The bloodline giving wwe success and income is why avengers gets more punters in the door than films that win Oscar’s. Wrestling fans, like most forms of entertainment, want something that’s easy to digest and doesn’t offend their intelligence. It ain’t cinema, but what I’ve seen YouTube etc it’s easy to follow and progresses without needing to be too in the know, or know 20 year old indie lore that aew can be too smart for its own good in trying to make it a thing. If they are making more money from fewer people enjoying shows, then that’s to be applauded. Best thing that happened to them was the small indie guys all getting binned off and getting people who look like “superstars” in. 

[Kfogg1991]

Oh this storyline with the bloodline has genuinely changed the industry and the stuff they have brought into the mix making it feel like a movie is groundbreaking.

But three years is so long and I think most of the universe agrees and believes Roman should have lost at mania but they decided to drag it out for another year and I just feel it's too long they could do what they are without those belts but it is what it is 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Kfogg1991

[SuperBacon]

4 minutes ago, Kfogg1991 said:

Oh this storyline with the bloodline has genuinely cha

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Mr_Danger]

20 minutes ago, Kfogg1991 said:

Oh this storyline with the bloodline has genuinely changed the industry and the stuff they have brought into the mix making it feel like a movie is groundbreaking.

 

Gonna have to elaborate here because I’d argue that the reason it has been so compelling is that it’s tapped in to old school wrestling story telling where a faction would rule for a long arse time and the story would be told over that period. It’s not doing anything new but it’s a throwback to a better time coming off the back of some truly dire Covid time wrestling.

[Kfogg1991]

1 hour ago, Mr_Danger said:

Gonna have to elaborate here because I’d argue that the reason it has been so compelling is that it’s tapped in to old school wrestling story telling where a faction would rule for a long arse time and the story would be told over that period. It’s not doing anything new but it’s a throwback to a better time coming off the back of some truly dire Covid time wrestling.

Oh I agree that they have also leant into old school storytelling as well but I mean talking and exchanging serious and important dialogue without the microphones letting the in ring mics and cameras be in the right place to pick it up instead of the normal everything has to be shouted and said a certain way. 

I also have to give it to the WWE that for once they have let something slowly grow instead of the usual rushing and thinking they have to force it and the fans are that dumb. 

It has felt like watching a movie more than anything j can think of from recent times which is also refreshing 

[Hannibal Scorch]

@Supremo Great post, and I think everything since after the Rumble has really been annoying me with The Bloodline and that has made me so bitter about it, when in reality as you've reminded me, and not to paraphrase that twat Landis, when it's good its fucking great, and it did make me want to tune in for Smackdown if nothing else. Whilst I feel for the most part this year, I have been watching out of habit and not enjoyed a good 90% of the Bloodline. If this does indeed carry on until Mania 41 rather then Cody winning next year at Mania, they better have some better ideas then what we are seeing right now. 

Now I better go and find some You Tube videos of some of those better times.  

[The Gaffer]

The Bloodline story would have been coming down the other side of the mountain regardless of how Elimination Chamber and WrestleMania went, I think. That Royal Rumble melodrama was pretty much its peak. Probably in the top five in ring angles in company history. Even the Stone Cold act started to stale gradually toward the end of summer '99. Sami as champion or Cody as champion would have lent it a different dynamic had they wanted to keep mixing either of those two up with the faction, but I don't see a way out of it cooling off. 

There does seem to be a fairweather feeling to some of this now that the Sami Zayn wish fulfilment hasn't come to pass. Or the Cody Rhodes wish fulfilment. Yet. I'm not ragging on opinions here, more making the point that that's not how WWE really works. Maybe it should be how it works, but we all know the score by now. They're fundamentally in the business of satisfying their audience, but they're going to draw it out and do it in the most conservative, shareholder appeasing, multi-WrestleMania selling way they possibly can, and bollocks to anybody else's fantasy booking. And yes, it is fantasy booking. You've booked in your head how things should ideally go. 

It'd be great to be able to to get excited for week to week angles and big cathartic pops every other big live event but you're far better off re-adjusting your outlook to be as conservative as they're clearly going to be. That's been harder to do because they've been so hot, but you know SummerSlam, 'Rumble and WrestleMania are going to have a bit of intrigue. You know the fall's when they go to ground a bit and don't splash too much on big angles because viewership is traditionally at its lowest. This has happened for decades now. 

Personally I still think after the initial moment of Sami winning the belt, you'd have run immediately into the Del Boy-becomes-a-millionaire booking problem and we'd be having the same kind of cooling off discussions now anyway. That one was the thrill of the chase. Cody? I'm amazed anybody is worried about that. The guy's an AI generated WWE superstar template. They'll be able to heat him up at will. Roman Vs. Brock at SummerSlam last year was the best one and it was like the millionth time they done that match. They can make it hot when they want to. A quick scan of the crowds each week also still seem to suggest they're as into him as ever. For me it's a lot of conjecture to suggest it's because they were on to a good thing but they're not anymore. Time will tell, but I do feel they may know their dollar splashing audience a lot better than we do, and that audience is largely fine with a lot of this. 

Basically, it's WWE, lads. 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Gay as FOOK