Paid Members tiger_rick Posted October 18, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2021 41 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said: For him to be blacklisted and fuck off out of the industry forever. In a recent discussion about some alleged sex pest, Jack Gallagher I think, someone said he should be selling door to door or something. My immediate thought was that's no better for the poor bastard answering the door. As much as these people shouldn't be adulated and definitely shouldn't be in a position of responsibility, moving them on just shifts the problem. So I don't really know the answer. Ideally, it's in prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, Gordon_The_Gopher said: Ok let's assume the following: - That there have been safeguarding checks, whereby a witness/impact account has been taken from the victim/survivor/accuser or whatever the case may be, in the individual circumstances. Others have provided references, both professionally and personally - A safeguarding assessment is done, reviewing past behaviours, current risks, DBS, online searches. - The checks show no criminal activity took place but whoever the individual has shown immaturity in their decisions and did not treat a partner well in a relationship. They pose no threat to those immediately around them, have sought counselling for their personal situation and difficulties, have been able to obtain and maintain employment elsewhere. If those conditions were met by am individual (IF) what would people's thoughts be then? That's a shitload of assumptions right there. Let me ask you a question in return. How many wrestling organisations, especially at the level he's working for now, are well-known for being so thorough and diligent on that front? I don't mean that as a dig, I'm curious to know if such checks are commonplace in the wrestling world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Gordon_The_Gopher Posted October 18, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, David said: That's a shitload of assumptions right there. Let me ask you a question in return. How many wrestling organisations, especially at the level he's working for now, are well-known for being so thorough and diligent on that front? I don't mean that as a dig, I'm curious to know if such checks are commonplace in the wrestling world. It's a fair question - I have been told Progress and RevPro have thorough checks in place now? Personally the only companies I can speak for is SWW which has an appointed safeguarding officer and carried out checks on the people that work there. It is a lot of assumptions but it may also be weighted by the fact that they're educated assumptions. Not based on Ligero but someone else who was faced with this sort of situation and that was the depth it went to. Edited October 18, 2021 by Gordon_The_Gopher ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted October 18, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2021 18 minutes ago, Gordon_The_Gopher said: The checks show no criminal activity took place Sorry to go back, but this is really important. If there's an allegation of sexual assault, the idea that a FUCKING WRESTLING COMPANY could determine that 'no criminal activity took place' is ludicrous. What they can do at most is show that there's no proof that criminal activity took place. This isn't just pedantry, and the way you've dismissed other people as being flippant around this kind of thing is also important. Proof that these things happened is incredibly difficult to come up with and it's rare enough that a case can be taken to trial let alone conviction. That's why things like #MeToo and #SpeakingOut were so important - because if victims had no legal recourse, at least they could speak publicly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 17 minutes ago, Gordon_The_Gopher said: Ok let's assume the following: - That there have been safeguarding checks, whereby a witness/impact account has been taken from the victim/survivor/accuser or whatever the case may be, in the individual circumstances. Maybe I'm misunderstanding this part. How would this account have been obtained, other than what posters in this thread have seen? Is it reliant on some kind of official database holding more information than has already come to light, or is every promotion he wrestles for in future (or at least those with an interest in safeguarding) going to contact his accuser for a fresh statement (with, again, more detail than is already public)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Gordon_The_Gopher Posted October 18, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, Chris B said: Sorry to go back, but this is really important. If there's an allegation of sexual assault, the idea that a FUCKING WRESTLING COMPANY could determine that 'no criminal activity took place' is ludicrous. What they can do at most is show that there's no proof that criminal activity took place. This isn't just pedantry, and the way you've dismissed other people as being flippant around this kind of thing is also important. Proof that these things happened is incredibly difficult to come up with and it's rare enough that a case can be taken to trial let alone conviction. That's why things like #MeToo and #SpeakingOut were so important - because if victims had no legal recourse, at least they could speak publicly. Sorry for not being clear in my post but probably would have been better worded to say "a clear DBS showed no history of criminal activity". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69MeDon Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Apparently, the promoter of this show wasn't aware of allegations against Ligero because the promoter doesn't use social media... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted October 18, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) That's weird, I thought all the people affected had 'let it be'. Edited October 18, 2021 by Chris B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Land Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, 4FWREF said: Ligero has gone back to work, doing a job he did previously, for a company he worked for before. The liability is on his employer to confirm that he is safe to take part in that job and that no one is at risk around him. I'd assume those checks, such as DBS, have been carried out, if he is working on the shows. I'd imagine they will have made some form of safeguarding/risk assessment too.  So here is a question - assuming the checks were carried out, there seems to be a measure of indignation that he would dare go back to work - what do people want to happen and why? As far as i'm aware he's never been convicted of anything. The vast majority of job roles will not require higher level checks. A basic disclosure is only going to disclose convictions that haven't rehabbed under ROA. The job role would have to involve protected vulnerable groups in order for it receive the higher levels checks. I had a temp job working doing this years ago. I wouldn't trust my local postman anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Gordon_The_Gopher Posted October 18, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chris B said: That's weird, I thought all the people affected had 'let it be'. That is a dangerous and insensitive assumption you have made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 32 minutes ago, Gordon_The_Gopher said: It's a fair question - I have been told Progress and RevPro have thorough checks in place now. Personally the only companies I can speak for is SWW which has an appointed safeguarding officer and carried out checks on the people that work there. It is a lot of assumptions but it may also be weighted by the fact that they're educated assumptions. Not based on Ligero but someone else who was faced with this sort of situation and that was the depth it went to. The thing is, it's down to the company really, isn't it? Even if there had been evidence of criminal activity and a prosecution, once the offender serves their time they'd be free to work wrestling shows as a performer, correct? What this boils down to is what each promotion is prepared to stretch to, and let's be honest, if it makes them money they'll likely press on and work with the likes of Ligero. The only way companies stop working with someone who theoretically makes them money (I'm personally not sure how much of a draw he'd be) is if other performers and the paying public boycott the shows in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted October 18, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Gordon_The_Gopher said: That is a dangerous and insensitive assumption you have made You realise I'm referring to this, right? 1 hour ago, 4FWREF said: Quite a strange comment to make when it's me asking people who seem to have an opinion on the matter when the others who were more directly affected seem to have left it be. Â Rather than leaving it be, this whole conversation (from what I saw online) kicked off again because the first woman who accused Ligero posted about it. So they're not leaving it be. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Coconut Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, Gordon_The_Gopher said: That is a dangerous and insensitive assumption you have made ...by directly repeating my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Gordon_The_Gopher Posted October 18, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, King Coconut said: ...by directly repeating my opinion. I hadn't seen you comment before... Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted October 18, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2021 Just now, Gordon_The_Gopher said: I hadn't seen you comment before... Doh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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