Keith Houchen Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 minute ago, SuperBacon said: I can see that there's a lot of emotion from Pat about an issue that probably affects them everyday, so I hope there is some sort of resolution to it. Yeah. Pat has a perspective on this that we don’t and her perspective needs to be heard. It shouldn’t really be up to her to explain the issues but we who aren’t affected by them need to listen, acknowledge, and support. Because it’s a discussion for us but it’s real life for her, she has no doubt gone through hell for years.  I could be wrong but I think Pat totally misjudged what Pitcos posted as to my privileged cis eyes he didn’t do what she accused him of. I agree with Pitcos that anyone threatening sexual violence on a woman does come across as a rapey man. If that’s transphobic then so be it.  Rowling has form for this, so it’s not like a one off. I don’t know what it’s like to have people trying to erase my existence on a daily basis so I understand Pats passion and defensive reply. I just don’t think what she said is what Pitcos was doing, but again, that could be because I don’t live every day with attack after attack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pogue Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: My issue was more what he said in his post before he edited it. I found it unnecessary and a bit cruel but I think he said it in a fit of rage and hopefully reflected when he read it back. I know I did in the black lives matter thread the other day. I don't know either poster that well, and enjoy both their postings (mostly) and I would hope if I said something shit, someone would say something to me about it, like Chest the other day to me about being personal. I can see that there's a lot of emotion from Pat about an issue that probably affects them everyday, so I hope there is some sort of resolution to it. Possibly one for a private discussion, I don't know. Love x Still don't see how that answers my queries but if everyone discussed things like that then everyone would be a fuck sight better off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted June 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2020 Am I the only one who genuinely has no idea what CIS means? Other than it being the name for the ex-Soviet football team for a bit. Off to Google. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ronnie Posted June 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: Am I the only one who genuinely has no idea what CIS means? Other than it being the name for the ex-Soviet football team for a bit. It's the opposite of trans. Quite clever to apply like this, really. Transatlantic/transalpine: across the Atlantic/the Alps Cisatlantic/cisalpine: on this side of the Atlantic/Alps. Edit: Chris B gave a better answer below. Edited June 13, 2020 by Ronnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted June 13, 2020 Author Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: Am I the only one who genuinely has no idea what CIS means? Other than it being the name for the ex-Soviet football team for a bit. Off to Google. It's the opposite of 'trans' in latin. Cis = same side of Trans = opposite side of. Basically, if you're cis, it means you identify as the gender you were assigned at birth. If trans, you identify as the other gender. Think of it a bit like hetero/homo, also in the sense that it's not a binary, but closer to a scale.This is also why you have some people who define as 'non-binary' (meaning they either identify somewhere else on the scale) or 'gender-fluid' (meaning they don't consistently identify as one or the other). Edited June 13, 2020 by Chris B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pogue Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 This is a genuine question, I don't like being called/identified as cis, so does that make me a transphobe or whatever else? I'm fully aware not caring about certain things doesn't seem to be enough anymore but I'd be interested to see if anyone thinks I'm wrong in what I'm saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted June 13, 2020 Author Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, Pogue said: This is a genuine question, I don't like being called/identified as cis, so does that make me a transphobe or whatever else? Not necessarily, but what do you object to about it? How would you define yourself? Some people seem to have issues with the idea that it's terminology that came from the trans community - like 'they don't get to define me'. It can get a bit close to "I'm not 'cis', I'm normal", and that kind of thing can definitely verge on phobic, in the same way it would for sexuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ReturnOfTheMack Posted June 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2020 14 minutes ago, Pogue said: This is a genuine question, I don't like being called/identified as cis, so does that make me a transphobe or whatever else? Depends I suppose. What about it do you have an issue with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 I think it was rent a gobshite Louise Mensch or someone similar objecting to the use of Cis because it was a made up word. Is she in for a shock when she hears about every single other word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pogue Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 38 minutes ago, Chris B said: Not necessarily, but what do you object to about it? How would you define yourself? Some people seem to have issues with the idea that it's terminology that came from the trans community - like 'they don't get to define me'. It can get a bit close to "I'm not 'cis', I'm normal", and that kind of thing can definitely verge on phobic, in the same way it would for sexuality. Well why should I be labelled as something I don't associate with, I'm a male by birth who feels comfortable in their own body who is attracted to women, why do I need a label? This isn't playing devil's advocate or any bollocks, I just don't see how it's acceptable to label people with something they don't choose to be labelled as Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted June 13, 2020 Author Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) "Male", "straight" - these are labels. Did you choose them? They're just descriptions. It's not a judgement call or anything. It's like being offended at the description of the colour of your hair. Edited June 13, 2020 by Chris B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pogue Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chris B said: "male", "straight" - these are labels. Did you choose them? Sorry to nitpick but when did I write straight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted June 13, 2020 Author Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Pogue said: Sorry to nitpick but when did I write straight? You described yourself as a 'male by birth who feels comfortable in their own body who is attracted to women'. If that wasn't complete, fair enough. If your issue was that I used quote marks, it wasn't intended to put words in your mouth. Edited June 13, 2020 by Chris B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pogue Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 I'm a bloke, I'd call two gay lads I know blokes, I'd call someone born a girl who chooses to live as a man a bloke, is that wrong? Is this too simplistic? How is it wrong? I'm not arsed what anyone else identifies as, how can this possibly be wrong yet me refusing to be labelled as cis is queried? I'm not for a second accusing you of insulting me or anyone else by using the term cis but I don't see how it isn't double standards Apologies if this in anyway comes across as aggressive, not my intention at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 It’s just odd that being labelled as cis bothers you when you are cis. It’s like being labelled as left handed when your left hand is the dominant hand. It’s factually correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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