Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted July 9, 2019 Moderators Share Posted July 9, 2019 Which is scary as fuck when you get a glimpse at the membership. Did you watch that Dispatches last night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted July 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said: Which is scary as fuck when you get a glimpse at the membership. Did you watch that Dispatches last night? Yep. The Daily Mail & Express incarnate which pretty much highlights my original point. Either the UK is quietly a very right-wing country (which I don't believe) or the opposition are failing spectacularly when these arseholes are still not being held to account. It's grim as fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 50 minutes ago, Dead Mike said: He's a staunch Eurosceptic & always has been. Just a couple of months ago NIgel fucking Farage was tweeting out a video of Corbyn giving an anti-EU speech. When the Labour leader is doing Farage's work for him things are fucked. Well, in fairness he's nothing like Farage, and his reasons for being anti-EU don't match up with his at all. It's easy to forget that the right wing haven't always had the market cornered when it comes to being anti-EU. Long before Brexit was even a thing there were Socialist activists and figures who were warning about the EU and making very solid arguments for an alternative. We now live in a weird alternate universe where the left-wing, many of whom claim to be anti-nationalist, actively quote the likes of Michel Barnier, who is a staunch neo-Gaullist, as if he's some sort of force for good.  In short, it's absolutely no wonder why the right wing are running rings around the left. The left don't know who or what they are anymore. The whole thing is fucked, and even in the somewhat depleted state that the British right is in, it's still more than a match in all areas for joke that the left has become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dead Mike said: Yep. The Daily Mail & Express incarnate which pretty much highlights my original point. Either the UK is quietly a very right-wing country (which I don't believe) or the opposition are failing spectacularly when these arseholes are still not being held to account. It's grim as fuck. I've said it before that I think this country is for the most part right-leaning, which, in a distorting political climate like this, tends to be magnified, leading to a strengthening of the extreme right. The main worry for me is that, in the past, the right was kept in relative check by a more militant left, but it's been so decimated by Thatcherism and 40 years of the politics that have stemmed from her legacy that it's not doing that any more. Not in the mainstream at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted July 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, David said: Well, in fairness he's nothing like Farage, and his reasons for being anti-EU don't match up with his at all. It's easy to forget that the right wing haven't always had the market cornered when it comes to being anti-EU. Long before Brexit was even a thing there were Socialist activists and figures who were warning about the EU and making very solid arguments for an alternative.  I'm not claiming he's the same as Farage in any way. However, he's Farage's useful idiot as intentionally or not he's helped the Brexit party no end by refusing to acknowledge the opinion of the Labour membership. The 'Lexit' argument is the pinnacle of hypothetical bollocks that is simply undeliverable. It's the left-wing equivalent of the crazy claims made by the likes of David Davis & Liam Fox pre-referendum. 2 cheeks of the same arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Dem Wanz Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Dead Mike said: I'm not claiming he's the same as Farage in any way. However, he's Farage's useful idiot as intentionally or not he's helped the Brexit party no end by refusing to acknowledge the opinion of the Labour membership. The 'Lexit' argument is the pinnacle of hypothetical bollocks that is simply undeliverable. It's the left-wing equivalent of the crazy claims made by the likes of David Davis & Liam Fox pre-referendum. 2 cheeks of the same arse. Spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Just now, Dead Mike said: I'm not claiming he's the same as Farage in any way. However, he's Farage's useful idiot as intentionally or not he's helped the Brexit party no end by refusing to acknowledge the opinion of the Labour membership. The 'Lexit' argument is the pinnacle of hypothetical bollocks that is simply undeliverable. It's the left-wing equivalent of the crazy claims made by the likes of David Davis & Liam Fox pre-referendum. 2 cheeks of the same arse. Personally, I'd rather he stood his ground and maintained his position. If the Labour membership don't like it they can get rid of him and bring in someone who's more in line with their way of thinking. There's plenty of them in the Labour Party who'd be happy to pander to whatever the majority want as long as it meant they were in a position of power. Everyone knew Corbyn's politics and beliefs before the "Corbyn-mania" shite that we saw a while back. He's a proper old school left-wing activist type, which perhaps doesn't fit with the weird left-wing positioning we see today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted July 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 minute ago, David said: Personally, I'd rather he stood his ground and maintained his position. If the Labour membership don't like it they can get rid of him and bring in someone who's more in line with their way of thinking. There's plenty of them in the Labour Party who'd be happy to pander to whatever the majority want as long as it meant they were in a position of power.  I just want the Tories out & a Labour party that are actually electable. As it stands, they're not. Quote Everyone knew Corbyn's politics and beliefs before the "Corbyn-mania" shite that we saw a while back. He's a proper old school left-wing activist type, which perhaps doesn't fit with the weird left-wing positioning we see today. This is provably not the case. Hence why loads of young people were shocked when he didn't oppose Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dead Mike said: I just want the Tories out & a Labour party that are actually electable. As it stands, they're not. Well, in order for Labour to be electable in Britain today they'll need to swing a bit more to the right most likely. Corbyn isn't the man for that, you're probably needing a Tony Blair 2.0 to make it work. 2 minutes ago, Dead Mike said: This is provably not the case. Hence why loads of young people were shocked when he didn't oppose Brexit. I'm hardly a political buff, but wasn't it common knowledge that he voted for Britain to leave the EEC in 1975, opposed the creation of the EU under the Maastricht Treaty, voted against the Lisbon Treaty in 2008, and went against the party whip to vote for a referendum in 2011? The list goes on and on really, so it should come as a surprise to absolutely no one that he'd not oppose leaving the EU. Or did people think he'd change a life-long viewpoint because the media stuck the "Brexit" slogan on it and Nigel Farage supported it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted July 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, David said: Well, in order for Labour to be electable in Britain today they'll need to swing a bit more to the right most likely. Corbyn isn't the man for that, you're probably needing a Tony Blair 2.0 to make it work.  I don’t think so tbh. The manifesto they published at the last GE was well received & despite the media narrative was realistic & miles away from from ‘hard left’ claims. As it stands I think it’s the toxicity of Corbyn that’s holding them back. He’s served his purpose, now they need a leader who the general public actually like rather than just a hardcore minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Dead Mike said: He’s served his purpose, now they need a leader who the general public actually like rather than just a hardcore minority. Which will most likely have to be someone a bit more to the right. The reason only a hardcore minority like Corbyn is because of his supposed "dangerous" far-left beliefs. So it stands to reason that for someone else to come in who's considered more likeable you're probably looking for someone who isn't as outspoken on Israel/Palestine, who isn't as critical of the State of Israel (that's a big no-no if you want to be any kind of success in mainstream politics), who toes the line when it comes to the IRA, and who obviously backs the EU. The person who fits that criteria is someone who is, naturally, less to the left, and thus more to the right. What's your thoughts on the voting pattern of Corbyn when it comes to the EU? Wasn't that information I posted widely available before he became the darling of the young? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted July 9, 2019 Moderators Share Posted July 9, 2019 Yeah, I don't think you need New Labour. I think someone modern and progressive instead of old school Labour is what is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted July 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, David said: Which will most likely have to be someone a bit more to the right. The reason only a hardcore minority like Corbyn is because of his supposed "dangerous" far-left beliefs. So it stands to reason that for someone else to come in who's considered more likeable you're probably looking for someone who isn't as outspoken on Israel/Palestine, who isn't as critical of the State of Israel (that's a big no-no if you want to be any kind of success in mainstream politics), who toes the line when it comes to the IRA, and who obviously backs the EU. The person who fits that criteria is someone who is, naturally, less to the left, and thus more to the right. What's your thoughts on the voting pattern of Corbyn when it comes to the EU? Wasn't that information I posted widely available before he became the darling of the young?  No, it doesn’t need to be someone more ‘to the right’ just someone without the baggage (rightly or wrongly) that Corbyn has. I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive at all. As far as Corbyn’s voting history & Eurosceptic views being publicly available, of course they were. This doesn’t mean that people actually looked it up or cared. You know as well as I do that in the current political climate facts & evidence play little importance in shaping beliefs. If this were the case Brexit wouldn’t be happening at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Danger Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 They need their own version of that gimpy Rory the Tory twat. Only self aware and less gimpy. Preferably a bit Jewish too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted July 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2019 I think Corbyn has served his purpose, in producing the most genuinely left-wing major party manifesto in decades, one of the largest electoral endorsements of socialist policies in decades, getting young people interested in politics, getting many older Labour voters back on side, and generally dragging part of the conversation further to the left. But the longer he holds on now, the more damage he's doing, and the more that good work is being undone. As for his position on the EU - it's easy to forget in the narrative of Brexit that there are valid left-wing reasons to leave the EU. I still occasionally pick up a copy of the Morning Star, and they're staunchly in favour of leaving the EU, but on very different grounds to the Tories. Tony Benn (and "Corbynism" is little more than warmed over Benn-ite politics) was extremely anti-EU, and admitted that getting Britain out of the EU would involve some very uneasy alliances. My feeling, though, is that while there are valid left wing arguments for leaving the EU, there are no valid left wing arguments for doing so under an increasingly right wing Tory government while our closest ally is an isolationist, far-right, increasingly erratic President of the USA. The solution should be to reform from within, and approach the issue from a position of strength at a later date. 1 minute ago, Mr_Danger said: They need their own version of that gimpy Rory the Tory twat. Only self aware and less gimpy. Preferably a bit Jewish too. Surely that's just Ed Milliband? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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