Keith Houchen Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said: chose vegan for the welfare of sentient beings, it’s just useful that stuff like health and environment add extra layers/reasons that could help other people make the switch. Absolutely, it's like a tasty side to go with the main dish, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted October 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted October 9, 2018 Where would you stand on this Max? I would say that this would make the fruit and vegetables grown by these methods not vegan. The use of billions of sentient beings, confined in boxes, in conditions that negatively impact the welfare of the animal would render the crops produced not vegan. Obviously you've already covered the fact you can't eat the honey, so surely you wouldn't eat the crops produced in this manner. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/migratory-beekeeping-mind-boggling-math/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey_Piste Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, Lion_of_the_Midlands said: Where would you stand on this Max? I would say that this would make the fruit and vegetables grown by these methods not vegan. The use of billions of sentient beings, confined in boxes, in conditions that negatively impact the welfare of the animal would render the crops produced not vegan. Obviously you've already covered the fact you can't eat the honey, so surely you wouldn't eat the crops produced in this manner. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/migratory-beekeeping-mind-boggling-math/ Avocados and almonds are 2 of the largest crops that use migratory beekeeping. This technically means that they aren't vegan. The same goes for produce that uses blood, fish and bone or manure for fertiliser.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey_Piste Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, UK Kat Von D said:  UK Government statistics show that in 2015/16 total imports of soy beans, soy meal and soy oil totalled 3.1 million tonnes. Of this approximately: 1.1 million tonnes (35%) was fed to livestock, 1.42 million tonnes (45%) was used in food products for humans, 0.58 million tonnes (18%) was used in non-food products.  There is no disconnect, there is only the fact that one is worse than the other. Eating beef is factually much worse than eating tofu. Every single possible way to measure this, tofu comes out better. I have already pointed out how harmful soy production is to the environment, so the fact that most of the soy goes for human consumption, just shows that you are ignoring anything that goes against your own beliefs.  For example that infographic shows how much water is used producing various foods. It's not like that water just disappears for good it enters the water cycle. So for livestock, urea and manure is used as fertiliser to grow vegetables. As far as the second chart is weird because that doesn't seem to add up properly, because herbivores produce more methane than omnivores so their GHG emissions would go up. It also doesn't take in to count personal lifestyles which as Keith Houchen (sorry for the double post) pointed out can be far more environmentally damaging than what food they eat. Finally that third chart misses off grains, which the production of as I already mentioned is the highest source of GHG emissions in agriculture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, Rey_Piste said: Avocados and almonds are 2 of the largest crops that use migratory beekeeping. This technically means that they aren't vegan. The same goes for produce that uses blood, fish and bone or manure for fertiliser.  You’ve literally just copied a ridiculous statement from QI that is intended to damage Veganism. You’d be surprised the level of power the meat and dairy industry have. As far as the bees go, that article is clearly biased as fuck and it’s not an issue I’ve heard before so I’m not going to comment on it till I’ve looked into it more and know all the facts. At a guess I’m gonna say migrating bees is a side effect of humans destroying the bee population, which everyone should know has been an issue for years. That’s just a guess though and could be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said: that article is clearly biased as fuck To be fair, the same can be said from any vegan promoting article. Â They aren't approaching it from a neutral perspective. Â But as discussed, you could throw facts about anything at someone and they won't change their stance because they simply don't want to. Â Whether it be about eating meat, the meat industry, gun control, the EU, anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Truth is, no approach will ever be perfect. If veganism has helped someone to take more notice of the effect their lifestyle choices have on the planet then it can only really be considered a good thing, can't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, David said: If veganism has helped someone to take more notice of the effect their lifestyle choices have on the planet then it can only really be considered a good thing, can't it? Indeed.  I realise that my recycling and green initiatives may mean fuck all in the grand scheme of things given how big business can counteract my yearly contribution in less than a second, but it doesn't mean you should stop doing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey_Piste Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said: You’ve literally just copied a ridiculous statement from QI that is intended to damage Veganism. You’d be surprised the level of power the meat and dairy industry have. As far as the bees go, that article is clearly biased as fuck and it’s not an issue I’ve heard before so I’m not going to comment on it till I’ve looked into it more and know all the facts. At a guess I’m gonna say migrating bees is a side effect of humans destroying the bee population, which everyone should know has been an issue for years. That’s just a guess though and could be wrong I don't believe I have seen the episode of QI that mentions it. I definitely haven't if it's from one of the recent series' since I can't stand Sandi Toksvig. The fact you think that "big meat" is behind a fact on some BBC light entertainment programme makes me shake my head in disbelief. Migratory bees is literally taking man made beehives and shipping them about to pollinate crops. Edited October 9, 2018 by Rey_Piste Added some "big meat" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, Rey_Piste said: I don't believe I have seen the episode of QI that mentions it. I definitely haven't if it's from one of the recent series' since I can't stand Sandi Toksvig. The fact you think that "big meat" is behind a fact on some BBC light entertainment programme makes me shake my head in disbelief. Migratory bees is literally taking man made beehives and shipping them about to pollinate crops. The episode was literally this week, the clip is doing a viral on Facebook. It’s also been mentioned here a few pages ago. Genuinely don’t believe you haven’t got the information from there considering I had never even seen it this week. If you really can’t belive that huge businesses can use money to influence what you see on TV, then I’m gonna shake my head in disbelief right back at you. Im aware what migratory bees are, I read one article. I said I wasn’t going to form an opinion until I’ve researched it properly. Maybe you should consider doing the same in future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted October 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) https://www.facebook.com/bbctwo/videos/332049850887058/ This is the bit from QI on the poor, poor bees being exploited by those cruel vegans. Edited October 9, 2018 by tiger_rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey_Piste Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said: The episode was literally this week, the clip is doing a viral on Facebook. It’s also been mentioned here a few pages ago. Genuinely don’t believe you haven’t got the information from there considering I had never even seen it this week. If you really can’t belive that huge businesses can use money to influence what you see on TV, then I’m gonna shake my head in disbelief right back at you. All I have seen is the article posted from Scientific American earlier in the thread. I very rarely use Facebook, since I don't really live online and am getting a growing hatred of social media. I certainly do believe that big corporations do spend massive amount of cash to influence people with stuff on TV. Advertising is a massive business, but to think that, this bit on QI is a part of it, then I wouldn't shake your head too much your tinfoil hat may fall off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, tiger_rick said: https://www.facebook.com/bbctwo/videos/332049850887058/ This is the bit from QI on the poor, poor bees being exploited by those cruel vegans. The other week I posted a video online of me burning a letter from the TV Licence people. I reckon they’ve done this to get back at me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted October 9, 2018 Maxwell vs. Rey Piste: Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 I find that this is a pretty accurate representation of me arguing with people online when I’m pissed  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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