VeganMania

[Keith Houchen]

This was briefly discussed on Politics Live today, will be on the iPlayer.  Will Self and Ash Sarkar were on so that's good.

[Onyx2]

It sounds like a small deal, but tomorrow night's Bake Off is a vegan special.

9 million people watch it weekly, and while it won't create instant converts to veganism it will normalise the concept the more it appears on mainstream without a giant preachy flashing neon light on the top.

[SuperBacon]

3 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

This was briefly discussed on Politics Live today, will be on the iPlayer.  Will Self and Ash Sarkar were on so that's good.

Will Self? Eeeewwww

[Rey_Piste]

2 hours ago, UK Kat Von D said:

https://bbc.in/2ON3Gqe

The BBC have just published an article about climate change and states that immediate changes that are needed. As this is the final call to save the world from 'climate catastroph’

One interesting point is that top of the list individuals can do to save the entire planet is their diets to a more plant based one.

“But it adds that the world cannot meet its target without changes by individuals, urging people to buy less meat, milk, cheese and butter and more locally sourced seasonal food - and throw less of it away.”

Personally I think that buying no meat, milk, cheese and butter would probably work better. If the BBC said that I imagine plenty of people would throw their toys out the pram 

 

The whole veganism is better for the environment thing is a fallacy, I have emboldened the important bit that you posted. Any form of mass produced food is harmful to the environment. Whether it is due to nitrogen run-off going into the water system destroying ecosystems or the fact that we get so many foods imported into the country causing a massive carbon footprint. Even if you buy organic fruit and veg, the produce itself may not actually be vegan because the most common fertiliser is blood, fish and bone. 

[UK Kat Von D]

59 minutes ago, Rey_Piste said:

The whole veganism is better for the environment thing is a fallacy, I have emboldened the important bit that you posted. Any form of mass produced food is harmful to the environment. Whether it is due to nitrogen run-off going into the water system destroying ecosystems or the fact that we get so many foods imported into the country causing a massive carbon footprint. Even if you buy organic fruit and veg, the produce itself may not actually be vegan because the most common fertiliser is blood, fish and bone. 

All mass produced food has a carbon footprint, however eating meat is considerably worse than plant based foods. Meat eaters use about 18 times more land space for their diets than Vegans do and livestock aacount for nearly 15% of GHG emissions.

 

 

 

[Chest Rockwell]

3 hours ago, UK Kat Von D said:

 

Personally I think that buying no meat, milk, cheese and butter would probably work better. If the BBC said that I imagine plenty of people would throw their toys out the pram  

It's not the advice of the BBC. It's a quote from the report by the IPCC. You know, the scientists who did the research before making their recommendations.

[UK Kat Von D]

20 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said:

It's not the advice of the BBC. It's a quote from the report by the IPCC. You know, the scientists who did the research before making their recommendations.

Okay, if the BBC reported that the scientists said that then I imagine plenty of people would throw their toys out the pram. A compromise has been put in their either way to stop people rejecting what the report has to say. That is extremely obvious. If cutting down on animal products is good, obviously cutting it all out would be better. 

Well done, for you know, trying to find the smallest descrepancy with my statement as an excuse to brush it off.

Out of curiosity did you watch that documentary I linked you to after you asked about it? 

Edited October 8, 2018 by UK Kat Von D

[Rey_Piste]

4 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said:

All mass produced food has a carbon footprint, however eating meat is considerably worse than plant based foods. Meat eaters use about 18 times more land space for their diets than Vegans do and livestock aacount for nearly 15% of GHG emissions.

 

 

 

Agriculture including livestock is approximately 24% of the total GHG emissions. Of that 24%, an estimated 60% of it comes from n2o released from soil due to ploughing and tilling.

As for land use, that does vary massively from crop to crop and to what types of livestock are being kept. Hydroponic tomatoes for example use less space than growing them in polytunnels, but is more harmful to the environment. Land space isn't the issue, it's the damage being caused by the use of that land.

[Loki]

Food miles is a hugely important factor as well, as you said earlier.  It's more environmentally friendly to eat a lamb chop from a local farm than an avocado that's been shipped from the other side of the world.   If  more of us grew our own veg and ate seasonally, that would surely help a lot as well.  Winter veg is ace - I probably enjoy what comes out of our garden more in the winter than the summer!

[UK Kat Von D]

22 minutes ago, Rey_Piste said:

Agriculture including livestock is approximately 24% of the total GHG emissions. Of that 24%, an estimated 60% of it comes from n2o released from soil due to ploughing and tilling.

As for land use, that does vary massively from crop to crop and to what types of livestock are being kept. Hydroponic tomatoes for example use less space than growing them in polytunnels, but is more harmful to the environment. Land space isn't the issue, it's the damage being caused by the use of that land.

15% is total GHG emissions, the chart you posted is the emissions by the economic sector. That’s different. Different sources will probably have slightly different figures depending what standards they choose to measure it. For example some places might only include the actual emissions coming out of cows arses, some will include the emissions of the food they ate and some will include the transportation as well.

 The food grown to feed livestock is the most harmful to the environment because that will be less regulated than people food.

Edited October 8, 2018 by UK Kat Von D

[Keith Houchen]

6 minutes ago, Loki said:

Food miles is a hugely important factor as well, as you said earlier.  It's more environmentally friendly to eat a lamb chop from a local farm than an avocado that's been shipped from the other side of the world.   If  more of us grew our own veg and ate seasonally, that would surely help a lot as well.  Winter veg is ace - I probably enjoy what comes out of our garden more in the winter than the summer!

I mention the vegan co-operative near me (Unicorn Grocery) and that has maps up showing you the distance their veg has travelled.  They'll use one that's more miles away if they're more ethical in their approach to farming.  They have a fair bit of literature around the place so it's not only a place for great produce, it's educational as well!

[Chest Rockwell]

30 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said:

Okay, if the BBC reported that the scientists said that then I imagine plenty of people would throw their toys out the pram. A compromise has been put in their either way to stop people rejecting what the report has to say. That is extremely obvious. If cutting down on animal products is good, obviously cutting it all out would be better. 

Well done, for you know, trying to find the smallest descrepancy with my statement as an excuse to brush it off.

Out of curiosity did you watch that documentary I linked you to after you asked about it? 

It was an important distinction worth pointing out, I thought. I don't really know what 'throwing toys or the pram' means in this context. It's an odd turn of phrase for this scenario and not sure how it applies. 

I think you've made a bit of a leap in your logic there, but you're probably correct that the gold standard would be no meat and dairy consumption in terms of the environmental impacts.

However, what the report is about more broadly is all the things that could be done to limit warming to the 1.5°C recommended. I've no idea what proportion of the overall impact this represents. You've just picked on one aspect of whole thing.

I didn't watch the doc, no. I told you I was after articles not videos. Documentaries aren't really convenient for me to fit in to my schedule and I don't learn as well from them as from reading because I kinda phase out.

[Rey_Piste]

Just now, UK Kat Von D said:

15% is total GHG emissions, the chart you posted is by the emissions by the economic sector. That’s different. Different sources will probably have slightly different figures depending what standards they choose to measure it. For example some places might only include the actual emissions coming out of cows arses, some will include the emissions of the food they ate and some will include the transportation as well.

 The food grown to feed livestock is the most harmful to the environment because that will be less regulated than people food.

Can you link me to your stats Kat? I'm just going off the 2017 EPA figures. As for feed grown for livestock, most of the time it is not something specifically grown fro livestock to eat, it's often byproducts from food production. Stuff that's considered undersized or not ripe enough for human consumption. Agriculture as a whole is rather self sufficient, with manure from cattle being used as fertiliser and unused grain going back to feed the cattle.

[UK Kat Von D]

3 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said:

However, what the report is about more broadly is all the things that could be done to limit warming to the 1.5°C recommended. I've no idea what proportion of the overall impact this represents. You've just picked on one aspect of whole thing.

I didn't watch the doc, no. I told you I was after articles not videos. Documentaries aren't really convenient for me to fit in to my schedule and I don't learn as well from them as from reading because I kinda phase out.

I picked one thing that was directly linked to this topic. It’s obviously not the only thing we’d need to do, but it’s the only thing relevant to this discussion.

Cowspiracy is an easy watch, but it’s a 90 minute film. To compress all that information into words you’d be looking for a good book rather than a good article.

5 minutes ago, Rey_Piste said:

Can you link me to your stats Kat? I'm just going off the 2017 EPA figures. As for feed grown for livestock, most of the time it is not something specifically grown fro livestock to eat, it's often byproducts from food production. Stuff that's considered undersized or not ripe enough for human consumption. Agriculture as a whole is rather self sufficient, with manure from cattle being used as fertiliser and unused grain going back to feed the cattle.

The pie chart you posted says it’s for the economic sector.

https://ccafs.cgiar.org/bigfacts/#theme=food-emissions&subtheme=direct-agriculture

 

We all know it’s far more demanding to raise livestock than grow vegetables, that’s why not many people raise a cow in their garden as a hobby 

[UK Kat Von D]

Here a few trailers for anyone to check out. Honestly don’t think anyone would eat meat if they watched all of these films.

 

Cowspiracy: not graphic, a lot of very interesting information about the meat industry. This is one that turns most people Vegan.

Earthlings: graphic as fuck. Total emotional roller coaster. I don’t know a single person that has managed to watch this all the way through and continue to eat meat. 

If a tree falls: this is about the Earth Liberation Front. This one will radicalise you and make you want to go chain yourself to a tree. It follows the story of how one dude went from wanting to recycle more to burning down buildings.

What The Health: this tackles the health implications. Haven’t watched this but it made my Dad give up meat. Since then the effects of his MS have eased up 

Dominion: this is the latest one. I’m yet to see it but everyone has been giving it really good reviews. Looks like a heart wrencher and I don’t think I’ll be able to watch it.

Forks over knives: another health based one.