Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 He's only a higher standard because he's played games. No one thought Sancho was a better player than Pulisic six months ago but given the opportunity to play, he's over-taken him. The things Sarri has said Hudson-Odoi needs to work on are all things Sancho has tidied up this year and he's a much better player for it. It'll only come by playing too. Training, U23 games and bits and pieces won't do it. I feel the same about Phil Foden too in fairness to Chelsea. Young players not being given the opportunity to play frustrates the fucking life out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members garynysmon Posted January 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 Â If I was a young player with potential, I wouldn't be touching sides like Chelsea or Man City with a bargepole. I can't fathom how all these youngsters see these clubs as good career moves, and I throw in Ethan Ampadu in that mix. He seemed to be making strides last season and was in match day squads, but his career is stalling which is a shame as I can tell you from his international appearances, that kid is the dog's bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, garynysmon said: Â If I was a young player with potential, I wouldn't be touching sides like Chelsea or Man City with a bargepole. I can't fathom how all these youngsters see these clubs as good career moves, and I throw in Ethan Ampadu in that mix. He seemed to be making strides last season and was in match day squads, but his career is stalling which is a shame as I can tell you from his international appearances, that kid is the dog's bollocks. I think it's mainly to do with the self-belief that most players have in their own abilities. If a player was the type to think "nah, I'm nowhere near good enough to play at the very highest level. I'm best off staying in my comfort zone where I'll make less money but be a bigger fish in a smaller pond" then there's a good chance they wouldn't have what it takes. Most players, especially good young players, believe they can be as good as anyone in their position in the world. It may sound mental to the average Joe, but you need that kind of drive to make it to the top. There's also the improved training facilities, the chance to work with the best coaches and alongside the top players, and also the increase in money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted January 2, 2019 Author Moderators Share Posted January 2, 2019 27 minutes ago, garynysmon said: I can't fathom how all these youngsters see these clubs as good career moves, and I throw in Ethan Ampadu in that mix. He seemed to be making strides last season and was in match day squads, but his career is stalling which is a shame as I can tell you from his international appearances, that kid is the dog's bollocks.  Apparently he's off to join the Welsh contingent at Derby County on loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted January 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, tiger_rick said: He's only a higher standard because he's played games. No one thought Sancho was a better player than Pulisic six months ago but given the opportunity to play, he's over-taken him. The things Sarri has said Hudson-Odoi needs to work on are all things Sancho has tidied up this year and he's a much better player for it. It'll only come by playing too. Training, U23 games and bits and pieces won't do it. I feel the same about Phil Foden too in fairness to Chelsea. Young players not being given the opportunity to play frustrates the fucking life out of me. Very true, but then again Pulisic isn't joining up with them until after the end of the season. That gives Hudson-Odoi the rest of the season to make an impression. If he does well (and he is starting to get game time), then as Gus mentioned they have a ready replacement for the ageing Willian and Pedro as well as the potentially outgoing Hazard. They're going to need at least a couple of attacking additions in the not-too-distant future. Then again this is Chelsea, so they'll probably just buy another expensive player from Europe instead. Completely agree re: Foden. If there's ever somebody that needs a loan move, it's him. Sure, he will learn plenty just from sitting through Pep's team talks and scouting briefings during in their little private cinema they have, but he'll learn far more from game time and he doesn't seem to be getting much (if any) more minutes than last season. 9 minutes ago, PowerButchi said: Apparently he's off to join the Welsh contingent at Derby County on loan. Makes sense, they could become the new Vitesse Arnhem what with Fat Frank there. They already have Tomori & Mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 18 minutes ago, PowerButchi said: Apparently he's off to join the Welsh contingent at Derby County on loan. Bunch of cunts. Not stopped weeping about Harry Wilson yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted January 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 You can sort of understand why these kids stay at Chelsea and City (and United, but hopefully the landscape for young players will change now that Mourinho's fucked off) because they will think they are the ones who can break through and make it there. But it's not a lack of talent working against them, it's a lack of trust. Guardiola can bleat all he likes about wanting to find some game time for Foden but I read he's played 91 minutes of league football this season? These players have to move on and hopefully the success of Sancho and Lookman last season will persuade more to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted January 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 Another good example is Reiss Nelson. My god, imagine if he wasn't on loan? A teenager scoring 6 goals in just under 500 Bundesliga minutes, that'd command some fee. For comparison (I know goals is only part of it), Dembele scored the same amount in his final season at Dortmund but across 32 games before Barca paid more than £100m for him. It's exciting to think that we will get him in the summer, a player of that quality and now with more experience, without paying a transfer fee. We really need somebody that can naturally play on the right wing as well and given the number of games Guendouzi has played this season, Emery doesn't seem to shy away from giving young players opportunities. I think Nketiah could do with a loan move abroad, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I read that as you getting Dembele in the summer and nearly fainted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, PunkStep said: Another good example is Reiss Nelson. My god, imagine if he wasn't on loan? A teenager scoring 6 goals in just under 500 Bundesliga minutes, that'd command some fee. For comparison (I know goals is only part of it), Dembele scored the same amount in his final season at Dortmund but across 32 games before Barca paid more than £100m for him. It's exciting to think that we will get him in the summer, a player of that quality and now with more experience, without paying a transfer fee. We really need somebody that can naturally play on the right wing as well and given the number of games Guendouzi has played this season, Emery doesn't seem to shy away from giving young players opportunities. I think Nketiah could do with a loan move abroad, too. This has been building for a few years from Chelsea's farm system to Vitesse but there seems to be a real realisation now that playing regularly in a different league is great for your development. We've been talking about it for years on here about how our national team is the real anomoly with almost 100% of players being domestic based. That's still pretty much the case but the youngsters seem to have really twigged that there is a great opportunity out there if they are happy to step out of their comfort zone. it will be interesting to be to see if Hudson-Odoi is smart enough to push for a move to Bayern rather than rotting at Chelsea. The other big sea-change seems to be that foreign clubs, particularly in Germany, recognise the value in young English players. They are light years away from what we were producing 10-15 years ago in terms of technical ability plus they have the pace, physicality and English mentality, in a good way, that I think top clubs want. There is ample opportunity to take them on loan and if buying, the price seems to be at least half of what a player costs the other way. 26 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: Guardiola can bleat all he likes about wanting to find some game time for Foden but I read he's played 91 minutes of league football this season? He talks a good game but I think he's lucky that Foden is very young and clearly desperate to play for Man City. The fact that he doesn't put him on in games when they're 3 and 4 up at times and often not until there is a minute or two left just shows it's a bit of lip service. I get that he has another load of players the club are paying a fortune who he needs to get on the pitch too but in that case, they should carry a smaller a squad. I really think this is the right time to start a quota system. Perhaps one of the few benefits of Brexshit. There's no argument for me about players not being good enough and all this "if they're good enough they'll make it anyway" bollocks you hear spouted by self-serving tiny-brained people isn't valid. Yes, a few will always make it. But we could and should ensure that lots more do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members garynysmon Posted January 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:  I really think this is the right time to start a quota system. Perhaps one of the few benefits of Brexshit. There's no argument for me about players not being good enough and all this "if they're good enough they'll make it anyway" bollocks you hear spouted by self-serving tiny-brained people isn't valid. Yes, a few will always make it. But we could and should ensure that lots more do. Couldn't agree more. No one is saying that overseas players haven't enriched the Premier League, but whereas it was once the likes of Cantona, Klinsmann, Gullit, squads are overwhelmingly populated by run-of-the-mill players who are genuinely no better that what's being produced in the British Isles. If there were a reasonable quota it would mean there would still be room for the top players while also giving a chance for academy products to prove their worth. Edited January 2, 2019 by garynysmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted January 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 I argue David's point all the time when the "why would you join?" comes up. Some may just be unmotivated but I argue most fancy they can do it. The reason they're at a big club is because they've got to have some potential to be a big player, after all. If you're a Chelsea manager, say, I get why you wouldn't be all over the yoof. Chances are you only have a couple of years, so it's not like you'll realistically get the time to slowly build a team of talented young players. Plus, with the money about, you can always just throw some quick fix at a confirmed talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAFKAC Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 To be fair, it is not that new. Did man utd not previously send players to royal antwerp on loan? Wholeheartedly agree on the benefits though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecian Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Everyone at Exeter assumed Ampadu would go to Arsenal, as his dad was in charge of their u18 or u23 side, I can't remember which. That said, Ethan is a Chelsea fan, so his decision to go there is understandable, plus if it doesn't work out for him, he's good enough to go somewhere else in a couple of seasons and most clubs would love to have him. The other consideration with Ampadu is if he makes one more first team appearance, Exeter are due another £250,000, so if Sarri could play him once more, we'd be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Grecian said: Everyone at Exeter assumed Ampadu would go to Arsenal, as his dad was in charge of their u18 or u23 side, I can't remember which. That said, Ethan is a Chelsea fan, so his decision to go there is understandable, plus if it doesn't work out for him, he's good enough to go somewhere else in a couple of seasons and most clubs would love to have him. There's also the added attraction of having "former Chelsea youth player/occasional senior squad member" on your CV, which can help if and when you decide to move on. Not to mention the added loan opportunities that probably wouldn't be available at a lesser club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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